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A BFR question



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 22nd 08, 08:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dallas
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Posts: 541
Default A BFR question


Being a new pilot I don't know much about the BFR process.

Over Xmas I was chatting with my pilot Brother-in-law about my new status
as a pilot when he stated that he thought he could just go to the local FBO
and rent an aircraft himself. I said yes and reminded him that he'd also
need a medical and a BFR.

He's a retired Air Force F-15 pilot with an FAA commercial ticket,
multiengine and instrument rating. Impressive stuff, but the last time he
flew was in 1983. While looking over a chart he had no idea what Bravo
airspace was.

It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
fly in today's sky. My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
books for a few weeks.

I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
current state.

--
Dallas
  #2  
Old January 22nd 08, 08:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Robert M. Gary
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Posts: 2,767
Default A BFR question

On Jan 22, 11:00*am, Dallas wrote:
Being a new pilot I don't know much about the BFR process.

Over Xmas I was chatting with my pilot Brother-in-law about my new status
as a pilot when he stated that he thought he could just go to the local FBO
and rent an aircraft himself. * I said yes and reminded him that he'd also
need a medical and a BFR.

He's a retired Air Force F-15 pilot with an FAA commercial ticket,
multiengine and instrument rating. *Impressive stuff, but the last time he
flew was in 1983. *While looking over a chart he had no idea what Bravo
airspace was.

It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
fly in today's sky. *My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
books for a few weeks.

I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
current state.


King makes a good DVD for just this situation. Its designed to help
pilots who have been out of the cockpit through the process. That is
what I recommend to students. Sure, they can pay me to teach it to
them but its usually more cost affective for them to get the DVDs
first so we can streamline what we talk about.
As to your question; I have no idea what any particular CFI may
require when performing a BFR.

-Robert, CFII
  #3  
Old January 22nd 08, 08:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Burns[_2_]
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Posts: 257
Default A BFR question

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/gu...rview.html#80s

"If you have been out of flying since the '80s." may be helpful.

Jim



  #4  
Old January 22nd 08, 08:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
kontiki
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Posts: 479
Default A BFR question

Dallas wrote:

It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
fly in today's sky. My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
books for a few weeks.

I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
current state.


Its clear he's a little behind the curve. It is up to the CFI who
does his BFR whether or not he is sufficiently proficient and
competent.

There are two parts to the BFR... ground and flight. The ground
portion reviews current FARs, airspace and flight planning issues.
If the CFI determines the pilot is not proficient with ground portion
does not preclude him from continuing on to the flight portion of the
review. He should not however, sign off the BFR if he feels the pilot
is deficient in the airspace knowledge you mention.

It would simply be a matter of scheduling additional time with the CFI
in training and/or review to the point where he would be comfortable
signing the man off for the BFR.





  #5  
Old January 22nd 08, 11:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Blueskies
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Posts: 979
Default A BFR question

"kontiki" wrote in message ...
Dallas wrote:

It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
fly in today's sky. My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
books for a few weeks.

I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
current state.


Its clear he's a little behind the curve. It is up to the CFI who
does his BFR whether or not he is sufficiently proficient and
competent.

There are two parts to the BFR... ground and flight. The ground
portion reviews current FARs, airspace and flight planning issues.
If the CFI determines the pilot is not proficient with ground portion
does not preclude him from continuing on to the flight portion of the
review. He should not however, sign off the BFR if he feels the pilot
is deficient in the airspace knowledge you mention.

It would simply be a matter of scheduling additional time with the CFI
in training and/or review to the point where he would be comfortable
signing the man off for the BFR.



Took me two hours with a CFI, one on the ground talkin and one in the sky flyin, to get the bfr endorsement...after a 24
year and three month 'break'.

I did get a current copy of the AIM, some charts, and etc so I could distinguish the difference between Bravo and a TCA,
a control zone and Delta, etc.

That was three years ago...whatta blast flying again.

  #6  
Old January 23rd 08, 02:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
150flivver
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Posts: 171
Default A BFR question

On Jan 22, 1:00 pm, Dallas wrote:
Being a new pilot I don't know much about the BFR process.

Over Xmas I was chatting with my pilot Brother-in-law about my new status
as a pilot when he stated that he thought he could just go to the local FBO
and rent an aircraft himself. I said yes and reminded him that he'd also
need a medical and a BFR.

He's a retired Air Force F-15 pilot with an FAA commercial ticket,
multiengine and instrument rating. Impressive stuff, but the last time he
flew was in 1983. While looking over a chart he had no idea what Bravo
airspace was.

It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
fly in today's sky. My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
books for a few weeks.

I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
current state.

--
Dallas


If all he flew has been in the Air Force, he may have to get SEL added
to his ticket before he can go renting a single engine. He may be
limited to centerline thrust on multis also.
  #7  
Old January 23rd 08, 03:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Robert M. Gary
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Posts: 2,767
Default A BFR question

On Jan 22, 5:51*pm, 150flivver wrote:
On Jan 22, 1:00 pm, Dallas wrote:





Being a new pilot I don't know much about the BFR process.


Over Xmas I was chatting with my pilot Brother-in-law about my new status
as a pilot when he stated that he thought he could just go to the local FBO
and rent an aircraft himself. * I said yes and reminded him that he'd also
need a medical and a BFR.


He's a retired Air Force F-15 pilot with an FAA commercial ticket,
multiengine and instrument rating. *Impressive stuff, but the last time he
flew was in 1983. *While looking over a chart he had no idea what Bravo
airspace was.


It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
fly in today's sky. *My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
books for a few weeks.


I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
current state.


--
Dallas


If all he flew has been in the Air Force, he may have to get SEL added
to his ticket before he can go renting a single engine. *He may be
limited to centerline thrust on multis also.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


That would be interesting. To have a ME limited to centerline thrust
but no single engine rating. Almost seems like an oxymoron.

-Robert
  #8  
Old January 23rd 08, 04:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
BT
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Posts: 995
Default A BFR question

If all he flew has been in the Air Force, he may have to get SEL added
to his ticket before he can go renting a single engine. He may be
limited to centerline thrust on multis also.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


That would be interesting. To have a ME limited to centerline thrust
but no single engine rating. Almost seems like an oxymoron.

-Robert

It's true.. and it happens.. AF Trained pilots, T-37, T-38, F-15 are Multi
Engine, Centerline Thrust.
They take a written, and based on military check ride (Form 8) are able to
be issued a Commercial, Instrument, Multi Engine and never know anything
about Props or P-factor or engines other than jets.

No SE.

You want to have real fun.. teach those jet jockeys how to fly gliders,
providing they had not gone through the glider course at the academy.

BT


  #9  
Old January 23rd 08, 04:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
BT
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Posts: 995
Default A BFR question



I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
current state.

--


The "system" is between him and the CFI that signs his FR. Granted, anything
happen and the FSDO just might be knocking on the CFI's door.

The other part of the "system" is the Flight School / rental operations
insurance requirements. If he is ME only, then many may require "5hrs in
type" check out and many rentals require an instrument ticket to rent ME
aircraft.

If he is ME only and wants to fly SE, then he'll need instruction and have
to pass a check ride just like you did, with the full oral exam.
He could take the check ride at the Pvt level, and his certificate would
read. Commercial Pilot Airplane with ME, Instrument ratings. Private
Privileges only Airplane SE.

Oh.. not only will he need a Flight Review, but if he wants to fly on
instruments he will need an IPC. Instrument Proficiency Check signed off by
a CFII.

BT


  #10  
Old January 23rd 08, 06:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dallas
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Posts: 541
Default A BFR question

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:16:47 -0800, BT wrote:

They take a written, and based on military check ride (Form 8) are able to
be issued a Commercial, Instrument, Multi Engine and never know anything
about Props or P-factor or engines other than jets.


BT, I was under the impression that a military pilot didn't need an FAA
certificate to fly in the military. Was this an incorrect assumption?


--
Dallas
 




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