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Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 14th 19, 06:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bo[email protected]
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

Any news on new Jonker JS-3 Landing in Sagebrush, short of runway 30 @ Minden?
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  #2  
Old April 16th 19, 02:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

On 4/14/19 11:23 AM, wrote:
Any news on new Jonker JS-3 Landing in Sagebrush, short of runway 30 @ Minden?

Two of them seen in N Colorado yesterday. Not a scratch on them.
  #3  
Old April 16th 19, 02:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected][_2_]
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

Ok.....landout....no scratches.....what is the point?
Superior pilots making excellent decisions resulting in successful results.

R
  #4  
Old April 16th 19, 05:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

I know the pilot well and have had a lot of discussion with him about this. It turns out that this was the pilot's maiden flight in the JS3 and it turns out that the pilot has a bit of a thick brain and hadn't had enough opportunity to sit in the airplane and get familiar with the controls before setting sail.

After 16 years flying the ASW-27, muscle memory was involved. On downwind, the dive brakes were used to adjust appropriate pattern altitude starting from a high pattern entry from overhead, then somewhere on downwind the brakes were lastly put away. But, apparently not put away properly. The JS3 has several detent stops for holding the dive brake open at partial positions whereas the ASW-27 has only one detent at the closed and locked position.

By the time the poor SOB got to the base turn position he realized he was a bit lower than he expected and attributed that to sink. Bringing the turn around, he concluded that he was still in some pretty nasty sink. His split second decision was to get the airplane down on the deck for the dual purpose of getting into ground effect and secondly to get under the sink (sink always has to end at ground level when the ground is itself level). The intention was to attack the perimeter fence fast so as to be able to pop over it then on to runway 30. Plan C would be to land before the fence in the sagebrush if there wasn't positively enough energy to get over the fence.

As you already know from the original poster, plan C, landing before the fence was selected. Not surprisingly, speeding up with partially deployed air brakes caused energy to bleed all the more surely and quickly.

At touchdown a ground loop ensued that partly happened on top of the dense 4 foot high brush.

There's now a little bit of fix-it to be done on this beautiful new glider; nothing big enough to involve insurance companies.

When things go wrong there's takeaways... For JS3 flying, one must put eyeballs on the divebrake lever and its detents. It's not just push forward and lock anymore. We've learned that the hard way.

The other takeaway relates to adequate familiarizing with a new type. What I've done in the past with new gliders is to take them home to my workshop and sit in them for hours just playing with the controls and the instruments to make sure that I was totally familiar before taking flight for the first time. That was impractical this time. The program letter specifically required first flight at Minden and we were especially time squeezed because there were two of us who'd traveled long distance to get to Minden to pick up gliders and we needed to share one set of probes between two gliders (my JS3 arrived without probes); I was nominated to go first being the borrower in this instance.

Of course, that's all just sort of excuses. None of that should really have been a problem. I was properly briefed on the dive brake detents by a knowledgeable instructor and signed off accordingly. That little difference in the dive brake control design, though, just wasn't sufficiently engrained in this pilot's brain quite yet.

It's unusual to accidentally land out on your maiden flight with a brand new airplane. I'm feeling like a dodo for doing so and sad to have hurt my new bird.

Another big thank you to Mike and Tim and to Jim Lee for helping with my retrieve in that nasty sage brush.

As a postscript, I'm not so sure that having detent stops for open dive brakes is really a good idea. I'll think about that some more. I may decide to remove the detents. I suspect that there are other variations of the problem that I just had. It would be especially embarrassing if something like this happened to me again.

  #5  
Old April 16th 19, 05:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 10:27:40 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
I know the pilot well and have had a lot of discussion with him about this. It turns out that this was the pilot's maiden flight in the JS3 and it turns out that the pilot has a bit of a thick brain and hadn't had enough opportunity to sit in the airplane and get familiar with the controls before setting sail.

After 16 years flying the ASW-27, muscle memory was involved. On downwind, the dive brakes were used to adjust appropriate pattern altitude starting from a high pattern entry from overhead, then somewhere on downwind the brakes were lastly put away. But, apparently not put away properly. The JS3 has several detent stops for holding the dive brake open at partial positions whereas the ASW-27 has only one detent at the closed and locked position..

By the time the poor SOB got to the base turn position he realized he was a bit lower than he expected and attributed that to sink. Bringing the turn around, he concluded that he was still in some pretty nasty sink. His split second decision was to get the airplane down on the deck for the dual purpose of getting into ground effect and secondly to get under the sink (sink always has to end at ground level when the ground is itself level). The intention was to attack the perimeter fence fast so as to be able to pop over it then on to runway 30. Plan C would be to land before the fence in the sagebrush if there wasn't positively enough energy to get over the fence.

As you already know from the original poster, plan C, landing before the fence was selected. Not surprisingly, speeding up with partially deployed air brakes caused energy to bleed all the more surely and quickly.

At touchdown a ground loop ensued that partly happened on top of the dense 4 foot high brush.

There's now a little bit of fix-it to be done on this beautiful new glider; nothing big enough to involve insurance companies.

When things go wrong there's takeaways... For JS3 flying, one must put eyeballs on the divebrake lever and its detents. It's not just push forward and lock anymore. We've learned that the hard way.

The other takeaway relates to adequate familiarizing with a new type. What I've done in the past with new gliders is to take them home to my workshop and sit in them for hours just playing with the controls and the instruments to make sure that I was totally familiar before taking flight for the first time. That was impractical this time. The program letter specifically required first flight at Minden and we were especially time squeezed because there were two of us who'd traveled long distance to get to Minden to pick up gliders and we needed to share one set of probes between two gliders (my JS3 arrived without probes); I was nominated to go first being the borrower in this instance.

Of course, that's all just sort of excuses. None of that should really have been a problem. I was properly briefed on the dive brake detents by a knowledgeable instructor and signed off accordingly. That little difference in the dive brake control design, though, just wasn't sufficiently engrained in this pilot's brain quite yet.

It's unusual to accidentally land out on your maiden flight with a brand new airplane. I'm feeling like a dodo for doing so and sad to have hurt my new bird.

Another big thank you to Mike and Tim and to Jim Lee for helping with my retrieve in that nasty sage brush.

As a postscript, I'm not so sure that having detent stops for open dive brakes is really a good idea. I'll think about that some more. I may decide to remove the detents. I suspect that there are other variations of the problem that I just had. It would be especially embarrassing if something like this happened to me again.


Well done Steve. Confession is good for the soul or so I'm told. I still have my old sack cloth and a pot of ashes if you feel the need for them. Glad you are OK and the JS just a bit dinged.

Bill Hill
  #6  
Old April 16th 19, 01:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

Thank you for sharing, glad the pilot is Okay. Glad the glider is not too badly damaged either.
  #7  
Old April 16th 19, 01:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BobW
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

On 4/15/2019 10:55 PM, wrote:
On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 10:27:40 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
I know the pilot well and have had a lot of discussion with him about
this.

Snip...
As a postscript, I'm not so sure that having detent stops for open dive
brakes is really a good idea. I'll think about that some more. I may
decide to remove the detents. I suspect that there are other variations
of the problem that I just had. It would be especially embarrassing if
something like this happened to me again.


Well done Steve. Confession is good for the soul or so I'm told. I still
have my old sack cloth and a pot of ashes if you feel the need for them.
Glad you are OK and the JS just a bit dinged.

Bill Hill


+1 on the "Well done..." salvaging a foot shot without physical injury to
yourself, and minimal injury to your new bird.

And, THANK YOU! for sharing the details and assessment with 'the gliding
world' so quickly and forthrightly. Having recently absorbed a JS-3 Flight
Manual (future crewdog) I'd noted the dive brakes' multiple detents without
giving further thought regarding in-flight pros/cons/potentialities.

Good old Murphy - a powerful guy...

Bob W.

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  #8  
Old April 16th 19, 02:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 16
Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

Thank you. You are helping our community become safer.

I have a newly-installed “Piggott Hook” on my ASH-26E, different function, but it is a physical change to the dive brake mechanism with added blockages. I am thinking over the pilot error modes as a result of your report.

Jim J6
  #9  
Old April 16th 19, 02:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,401
Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 12:27:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
As a postscript, I'm not so sure that having detent stops for open dive
brakes is really a good idea.


Steve first thanks for sharing this and glad you're OK and bird
only slightly dinged.

Detent on spoiler is an oft-requested feature for many gliders and
sometimes retrofitted. In common cases where you want to fly onto
the ground and dump flaps, no detent on spoiler causes bounding
back into the air when you take hand of spoiler to dump flaps.
Please do not ask (remind) me how I know.

Thanks again and speedy repair,
Best Regards, Dave
  #10  
Old April 16th 19, 03:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Robin Clark
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

OK. I'll fess up.
On my first landing in the 29 my hand somehow went from the spoilers to the flaps. I tried to extend the glide by closing the spoilers, but what I did was go into flaps negative. And the ship started falling out of the sky. I figured it out and touched down where I intended, but only because I had 1,000 feet of grass to float over. If there had been trees ...
Robin
 




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