death of GA in NY

This is the guy who castigated someone on the board who said he didn't
bother getting a medical or do a BFR.

Hey Skylune, you probably think your hacking is simply harmless fun, right?

What a putz. (Putzlune would be a better moniker you dolt/Emery-Riddle
washout.)



"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
Read the "Fuel Price Affect" (sic) posted on the AOPA member board (easy
to
hack into their site if you are not a member; I-pilot is a bit tougher,
but doable): Rising AV gas prices are definitely having an "affect."

Orville: What percentage of boaters use Coast Guard Services vs.
percentage of flyers using FAA funded services (including the airports
themselves, controllers, etc.)? How much of an operating subsidy and
capital subsidy do private marinas receive?

Why does the AOPA cry about "privatization" and "user fees" while the Boat
US has no such issues?

By the way, your red plane is butt ugly.

In article
outaviation.com,
"Skylune" (a pathetic excuse for a human being)
tried (and failed) to make a point:

Orville: What percentage of boaters use Coast Guard Services vs.
percentage of flyers using FAA funded services (including the airports
themselves, controllers, etc.)? How much of an operating subsidy and
capital subsidy do private marinas receive?

Plenty -- The Corps of Engineers keeps the harbors dredged; bridges have
to be raised/lowered for yachtsmen (such as "Skyloon") (or is he a
stinkpot driver?). They also require police to kep security, fire
services -- all paid by the taxpayers.

Don't come whining to ME about "subsidies"!



Why does the AOPA cry about "privatization" and "user fees" while the Boat
US has no such issues?

Because the boaters haven't been threatened (yet).


By the way, your red plane is butt ugly.

I can tell that "Skyloon" probably have far better taste than your wife
(or girlfriend/boyfriend), but have absolutely NO appreciation for good
airplanes. (The fool doesn't know how to spell my name, either.)

"Skylune" wrote:

Orville: What percentage of boaters use Coast Guard Services vs.
percentage of flyers using FAA funded services (including the airports
themselves, controllers, etc.)? How much of an operating subsidy and
capital subsidy do private marinas receive?

How many lakes, rivers, reservoirs, other bodies of water were created,
altered, maintained by the Corp of Engineers for the purpose of
recreational boating as a primary or tertiary reasons? How much does the
Corp spend each year to maintain those bodies of water?

wrote:

The slow death of GA is in acceleration in the NY area.


I believe you're missing the smaller picture. TEB has been *small* GA
unfriendly for quite some time now. It's all about money: which makes more
for the FBO, a 4 172s or 1 citation?

Right now, MMU is pretty good about small GA. But I predict that this won't
last long. The best break we "little plane" pilots got in a while in this
area was the rejection of the idea to extend CDW's 4/22 and put in an ILS.

And, of course, we've several smaller airports in the neighborhood. We do
need to work to keep them. NJ's been pretty good about this recently, I'm
please to note, trying to buy development rights and such.

TEB with its volume of commercial GA operations is, I suspect, less the rule
than the exception. Fortunately, I don't think most GA airports can handle
the traffic TEB's receiving.

Further to this, one particular FBO at TEB had a recent insurance problem.
Even though this wasn't related to small GA, a consequence was a severe
restriction in what could be done with their rented planes.

At least, that's the story. There's still the fact that small airplanes
take space and management that makes more money on larger planes.

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
gonline.com...
wrote:

The slow death of GA is in acceleration in the NY area.


I believe you're missing the smaller picture. TEB has been *small* GA
unfriendly for quite some time now. It's all about money: which makes
more
for the FBO, a 4 172s or 1 citation?

Right now, MMU is pretty good about small GA. But I predict that this
won't
last long. The best break we "little plane" pilots got in a while in this

I wouldn't call a $35.00 landing/parking/handling fee by Signature the only
FBO small GA friendly

Steve S wrote:

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
gonline.com...

wrote:


The slow death of GA is in acceleration in the NY area.


I believe you're missing the smaller picture. TEB has been *small* GA
unfriendly for quite some time now. It's all about money: which makes
more
for the FBO, a 4 172s or 1 citation?

Right now, MMU is pretty good about small GA. But I predict that this
won't
last long. The best break we "little plane" pilots got in a while in this


I wouldn't call a $35.00 landing/parking/handling fee by Signature the only
FBO small GA friendly


Agreed. A reasonable overnight parking fee ($10 a night ?) I could go
along with but $35 will pretty much guarantee a lot of GA aircraft
will avoid that FBO. In their own way they are contributing to the
extermination of general aviation.

Just as with excessive income taxes, there is a point of diminishing
returns. There somes a point where reducing tax rates actually results
in an overall increase in tax revenues because people start increasing
economic activities. I think some of these FBOs need a little dose of
supply side economic thinking.

kontiki wrote:
"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message

I wouldn't call a $35.00 landing/parking/handling fee by Signature the
only FBO small GA friendly
Is $35 really unfriendly in the NYC metro area? I haven't lived in the
area for almost 10 years but even then it cost over $20 to park a car
for the day in prime midtown spot. Why would it not cost the same or
more to park an aircraft?

Agreed. A reasonable overnight parking fee ($10 a night ?) I could go
along with but $35 will pretty much guarantee a lot of GA aircraft
will avoid that FBO. In their own way they are contributing to the
extermination of general aviation.
I expect to pay $10 a night almost anywhere. Often it's less. But at
prime locations I'm sometimes surprised at how little we pay... and how
much we complain.

I'd like use of all airports to be free too. I hate getting charged
parking and service and whatever. Although with the increased security
that 9/11 caused, I feel like I get a little more for the dollar. But
I'm willing to pay to get access, security, and service. I'm glad
someone is there to provide it and I have to be willing to pay for it.

It shouldn't work the way it worked for me this weekend. I filled up at
our private tank, then flew to our local Class C airport to pick up my
passenger. The FBO generously provided a car and driver to do the round
trip to the passenger terminal. No charge but I tipped the driver. We
returned and flew to a busy Class B. There were a number of smaller
airports nearby but none as close to our downtown hotel as the this one.
We tookour tail dragger directly to the overnight parking area knowing
that it can't be towed. We were met by 2 golf carts for luggage and the
trip to the FBO. We checked in, ate a cookie, met our host, and off we
went. We stayed an extra day. Returned, told the receptionist that we
needed a ride out to our plane because it couldn't be towed but
otherwise didn't need anything else. "Fine, have a nice flight". Three
different guys helped us get our luggage out to the plane.

No charge. I'm embarrassed by that. I know that they have charges for
overnight parking and service in lieu of a fuel purchase. But I didn't
offer and they didn't ask. It shouldn't work that way but often than
not, it does. (Taildragger helps). How do these guys stay in business?
I know my $35 isn't going to make or break the business but how many
businesses provide great, on-demand service and don't bother to collect
anything? Maybe I'll invest that $35 in a new ANR headset to stimulate
the economy.

No, actually I returned home and filled up again at the private tank
with the $35 I didn't pay the FBO. Great for me!

Just as with excessive income taxes, there is a point of diminishing
returns. There somes a point where reducing tax rates actually results
in an overall increase in tax revenues because people start increasing
economic activities. I think some of these FBOs need a little dose of
supply side economic thinking.
It was BS then, it's BS now.

Maybe I look at it strangely?
When you pay to park your car in a parking lot is it on private
property? When you pay to park your plane is it on private property? My take
on it is, if it is being (car or plane) parked on public property funded by
taxpayers it has already been paid for.
Heck I hate toll roads! Now if a private company wants to build a road
and charge a toll , fine. When tax dollars pay for the construction it just
really gets my goat. I don't mind some sort of tax, but I hate being
"double" taxed . I just do not see taxes funding airports and then the
airport turning around charging someone a landing fee or what have you ,
when the Federal tax dollar supports the airport. If the airport wants to
charge for it's use, then it needs to be a private airport and not publicly
funded. IMHO, a 2 buck charge at a funded airport is 2 bucks to much .
Is it just me or does anyone else feel they are being ripped off when
airports do this? Seems to me they could do more biz by not having landing
and parking fees. More pilots would stop there and use their services
wouldn't they? I think the fees just add to the slow death of GA in an area.

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message

I wouldn't call a $35.00 landing/parking/handling fee by Signature the
only FBO small GA friendly
Is $35 really unfriendly in the NYC metro area? I haven't lived in the
area for almost 10 years but even then it cost over $20 to park a car for
the day in prime midtown spot. Why would it not cost the same or more to
park an aircraft?

Steve S wrote:

I wouldn't call a $35.00 landing/parking/handling fee by Signature the
only FBO small GA friendly

Oh. Well. I'm out of date again, then.

I thought a new school/FBO had opened there a couple of years ago ("Blue"
something?).

- Andrew