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Tow plane wanted



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 20th 20, 11:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 88
Default Tow plane wanted



Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address. Bob


Bob,

The reason "others" haven't done what you did with your tow plane is that "others" have not found themselves pointed at the ground and unable to release while towing an inadequately prepared student pilot or any glider pilot not responding properly to losing sight of the tow plane. Once this happens to those who can make things happen at any club or commercial operation, changes will be made posthaste.

Any tow plane without a release handle available to the tow pilot sitting in the upright position is a disaster waiting to happen. The FAA and SSA know the recommended release handle (five to one ratio and located down on the floor of the aircraft) when combined with a Schweizer release is inadequate, they both mention this in their advisory circular and in the SSA literature IN BRIGHT RED LETTERS. Lack of mechanical advantage can be corrected, the movers and shakers need to stop waiting and start reacting.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
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  #22  
Old June 21st 20, 11:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Posts: 390
Default Tow plane wanted

On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 6:20:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address. Bob


Bob,

The reason "others" haven't done what you did with your tow plane is that "others" have not found themselves pointed at the ground and unable to release while towing an inadequately prepared student pilot or any glider pilot not responding properly to losing sight of the tow plane. Once this happens to those who can make things happen at any club or commercial operation, changes will be made posthaste.

Any tow plane without a release handle available to the tow pilot sitting in the upright position is a disaster waiting to happen. The FAA and SSA know the recommended release handle (five to one ratio and located down on the floor of the aircraft) when combined with a Schweizer release is inadequate, they both mention this in their advisory circular and in the SSA literature IN BRIGHT RED LETTERS. Lack of mechanical advantage can be corrected, the movers and shakers need to stop waiting and start reacting.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot


Walt, tow pilots have a limited window of time to react in such situations as extreme kiting. Back a few months ago I found myself screaming over the radio for the glider pilot to get in position or I was releasing him. The situation suddenly corrected and I was able to continue the tow, but my left hand was on that hopper handle ready to release without taking my eyes off the mirror, and without reaching to the floor for the release handle. IMHO the timeframe of looking and reaching for the release is a deadly combination.
Since this topic has been discussed I have had several individuals ask for pictures and details about the release handle, each request has been responded to with pictures and a word document discussing the different tow hooks and release handle. A few others have also commented that their Pawnee also has used the same handle for the tow release. It really doesn't matter whether you use the hopper handle or fabricate a handle that facilitates ease of reach and accessibility. It certainly could be the tool that brings the tow pilot back for another tow.
  #23  
Old June 22nd 20, 01:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 88
Default Tow plane wanted

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 6:51:41 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 6:20:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address.. Bob


Bob,

The reason "others" haven't done what you did with your tow plane is that "others" have not found themselves pointed at the ground and unable to release while towing an inadequately prepared student pilot or any glider pilot not responding properly to losing sight of the tow plane. Once this happens to those who can make things happen at any club or commercial operation, changes will be made posthaste.

Any tow plane without a release handle available to the tow pilot sitting in the upright position is a disaster waiting to happen. The FAA and SSA know the recommended release handle (five to one ratio and located down on the floor of the aircraft) when combined with a Schweizer release is inadequate, they both mention this in their advisory circular and in the SSA literature IN BRIGHT RED LETTERS. Lack of mechanical advantage can be corrected, the movers and shakers need to stop waiting and start reacting.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot


Walt, tow pilots have a limited window of time to react in such situations as extreme kiting. Back a few months ago I found myself screaming over the radio for the glider pilot to get in position or I was releasing him. The situation suddenly corrected and I was able to continue the tow, but my left hand was on that hopper handle ready to release without taking my eyes off the mirror, and without reaching to the floor for the release handle. IMHO the timeframe of looking and reaching for the release is a deadly combination.
Since this topic has been discussed I have had several individuals ask for pictures and details about the release handle, each request has been responded to with pictures and a word document discussing the different tow hooks and release handle. A few others have also commented that their Pawnee also has used the same handle for the tow release. It really doesn't matter whether you use the hopper handle or fabricate a handle that facilitates ease of reach and accessibility. It certainly could be the tool that brings the tow pilot back for another tow.


You bring up good point. EVERY training glider should have a radio and the tow plane and student should be in two way communications. (I'm sure a certain commercial operator would have a heart attack if he had to spend the money for this idea). There is no known signal for the tow pilot to tell the glider to get back to the left side and stay in the mirror. Every tow plane should also have a mirror on the right and left. Even if I had a radio during that severe kiting incident I would not have had time to tell the student to release before I was nose down. Your 180 tow plane should be a perfect fit for the Byron club. I believe their tow plane had a 180. Surprised SLGP didn't buy it. They would save money on gas I'm willing to bet. Not sure I would tow a super heavy with water with it but it would be the work horse for 95 percent of the tows.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.
  #24  
Old June 22nd 20, 08:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 390
Default Tow plane wanted

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 8:46:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 6:51:41 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 6:20:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address. Bob

Bob,

The reason "others" haven't done what you did with your tow plane is that "others" have not found themselves pointed at the ground and unable to release while towing an inadequately prepared student pilot or any glider pilot not responding properly to losing sight of the tow plane. Once this happens to those who can make things happen at any club or commercial operation, changes will be made posthaste.

Any tow plane without a release handle available to the tow pilot sitting in the upright position is a disaster waiting to happen. The FAA and SSA know the recommended release handle (five to one ratio and located down on the floor of the aircraft) when combined with a Schweizer release is inadequate, they both mention this in their advisory circular and in the SSA literature IN BRIGHT RED LETTERS. Lack of mechanical advantage can be corrected, the movers and shakers need to stop waiting and start reacting.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot


Walt, tow pilots have a limited window of time to react in such situations as extreme kiting. Back a few months ago I found myself screaming over the radio for the glider pilot to get in position or I was releasing him. The situation suddenly corrected and I was able to continue the tow, but my left hand was on that hopper handle ready to release without taking my eyes off the mirror, and without reaching to the floor for the release handle. IMHO the timeframe of looking and reaching for the release is a deadly combination.
Since this topic has been discussed I have had several individuals ask for pictures and details about the release handle, each request has been responded to with pictures and a word document discussing the different tow hooks and release handle. A few others have also commented that their Pawnee also has used the same handle for the tow release. It really doesn't matter whether you use the hopper handle or fabricate a handle that facilitates ease of reach and accessibility. It certainly could be the tool that brings the tow pilot back for another tow.


You bring up good point. EVERY training glider should have a radio and the tow plane and student should be in two way communications. (I'm sure a certain commercial operator would have a heart attack if he had to spend the money for this idea). There is no known signal for the tow pilot to tell the glider to get back to the left side and stay in the mirror. Every tow plane should also have a mirror on the right and left. Even if I had a radio during that severe kiting incident I would not have had time to tell the student to release before I was nose down. Your 180 tow plane should be a perfect fit for the Byron club. I believe their tow plane had a 180. Surprised SLGP didn't buy it. They would save money on gas I'm willing to bet. Not sure I would tow a super heavy with water with it but it would be the work horse for 95 percent of the tows.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.


I will share a story about the radio and the glider pilot, here at TCSC we insist on radio communications between the tow pilot and the glider pilot, NO excuses!It was a few months back when a student pilot had checked out to fly his 1-26. Now it only took 250 flights for the guy to solo, I guess you get the picture. As I was preparing for takeoff I called him three time on the radio to no avail. After the third call I pulled the release on the Gorilla and headed back to the hangar, it was near the end of the day and I had cold beer on ice so as far as I was concerned the day was over.
Suddenly Sky King jumped out of the 1-26 waving the middle finger, AKA, The Bird and approached me as if he wanted to let off a bit of steam. I just laughed as he yelled and said, "I was waving the rudder and that is as good as a radio call". I just shook my head as I enjoyed my cold beer. You know, I never had a problem with him communicating on the radio again, he is always loud and clear on 122.9.
Yes, the Gorilla will make someone a superb tow plane, I know that I will regret departing with the 180. Bob
  #25  
Old June 23rd 20, 10:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 3
Default Tow plane wanted

On Monday, 15 June 2020 02:02:57 UTC+1, Ramy wrote:
NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.

Thanks

Ramy


There will be a nice Pawnee 235HP for sale later this year when my Gliding Club here in the UK replaces its towplane with a lightweight Eurofox. The club has owned this Pawnee for 20 years. It had a zero hours engine rebuild about 500 hours ago. All mods done. Fuselage recovered last year. Fully set up for towing. 4 bladed prop and silencer fitted, with spare 2 bladed prop if needed. Originally US registered. Picture on the club website. Plenty more details from me if you want them.

Happy to discuss if you wish.

Mike Thorne.
Bath Wilts and North Dorset Gliding Club.
www.bwnd.co.uk
  #26  
Old June 23rd 20, 10:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Tow plane wanted

On Monday, 15 June 2020 02:02:57 UTC+1, Ramy wrote:
NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.

Thanks

Ramy

There will be a nice Pawnee 235HP for sale later this year when my Gliding Club here in the UK replaces its towplane with a lightweight Eurofox. The club has owned this Pawnee for 20 years. It had a zero hours engine rebuild about 500 hours ago. All mods done. Fuselage recovered last year. Fully set up for towing. 4 bladed prop and silencer fitted, with spare 2 bladed prop if needed. Originally US registered. Picture on the club website. Plenty more details from me if you want them.

Happy to discuss if you wish.

Mike Thorne.
Bath Wilts and North Dorset Gliding Club.
www.bwnd.co.uk
  #27  
Old June 23rd 20, 10:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Tow plane wanted

On Monday, 15 June 2020 02:02:57 UTC+1, Ramy wrote:
NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.

Thanks

Ramy

There will be a nice Pawnee 235HP for sale later this year when my Gliding Club here in the UK replaces its towplane with a lightweight Eurofox. The club has owned this Pawnee for 20 years. It had a zero hours engine rebuild about 500 hours ago. All mods done. Fuselage recovered last year. Fully set up for towing. 4 bladed prop and silencer fitted, with spare 2 bladed prop if needed. Originally US registered. Picture on the club website. Plenty more details from me if you want them.

Happy to discuss if you wish.

Mike Thorne.
Bath Wilts and North Dorset Gliding Club.
www.bwnd.co.uk
  #28  
Old September 27th 20, 12:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
erez balaga
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Posts: 2
Default Tow plane wanted

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 12:05:15 PM UTC+3, wrote:
On Monday, 15 June 2020 02:02:57 UTC+1, Ramy wrote:
NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.

Thanks

Ramy

There will be a nice Pawnee 235HP for sale later this year when my Gliding Club here in the UK replaces its towplane with a lightweight Eurofox. The club has owned this Pawnee for 20 years. It had a zero hours engine rebuild about 500 hours ago. All mods done. Fuselage recovered last year. Fully set up for towing. 4 bladed prop and silencer fitted, with spare 2 bladed prop if needed. Originally US registered. Picture on the club website. Plenty more details from me if you want them.

Happy to discuss if you wish.

Mike Thorne.
Bath Wilts and North Dorset Gliding Club.
www.bwnd.co.uk

Is your club pawnee is for sell?
  #29  
Old September 27th 20, 09:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default Tow plane wanted

On Sunday, September 27, 2020 at 7:58:26 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 12:05:15 PM UTC+3, wrote:
On Monday, 15 June 2020 02:02:57 UTC+1, Ramy wrote:
NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.

Thanks

Ramy

There will be a nice Pawnee 235HP for sale later this year when my Gliding Club here in the UK replaces its towplane with a lightweight Eurofox. The club has owned this Pawnee for 20 years. It had a zero hours engine rebuild about 500 hours ago. All mods done. Fuselage recovered last year. Fully set up for towing. 4 bladed prop and silencer fitted, with spare 2 bladed prop if needed. Originally US registered. Picture on the club website. Plenty more details from me if you want them.

Happy to discuss if you wish.

Mike Thorne.
Bath Wilts and North Dorset Gliding Club.
www.bwnd.co.uk

Is your club pawnee is for sell?


No, the Yellow Gorilla went to the best place that it could ever hope to go NCSA.
  #30  
Old September 28th 20, 02:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 30
Default Tow plane wanted

Gary Davis has a Calair 260hp that I think is 20hrs SMOH. Its listed on Wingsandwheels.
 




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