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Navion Parts Availability



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 11th 03, 03:28 PM
Margy Natalie
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Default Navion Parts Availability



"[email protected]" wrote:

What is the parts availability like for 1940's vintage Navions?


Not bad at all. One guy just bought the contents of the Navion factory.
From what I've heard, the people that bought the paperwork are trying to
make the parts considered bogus, but I don't think they have a chance.
He got 9 truckloads of parts including things people hadn't seen in
years. The Navion Society has some drawings that they have been making
parts from for years (the guys that bought the rest of the drawings are
trying to make those bogus also). We've never had problems getting parts.

And how much commonality do they have with the later upgraded models
up through the 60's Rangemasters?


Not sure, but I'm also not sure I'd call a Rangemaster an upgrade (as she
ducks from the objects being thrown by rangemaster owners).


There seem to be several Navion owners groups. If so, what's the
difference between them?


Politics! Well, a few more differences. The American Navion Society is a
company and it has a large parts dept. You must be a memeber to buy
parts. Navion Skies has a great want ads section and they organized more
trips (South Africa, Europe, etc.). We belong to both.


And finally, ownwers impressions of the aircraft would be appreciated.


Best airplane ever made :-). Big, roomy, can carry the kitchen sink.
Faster than a 172, not as fast as a Bonanza. We can carry camping gear
for a long week and 2 folding motor bikes with no problem. It handles
very nicely and is rather docile. Ours is in for the conversion to an
IO550 and we've gotten a bad case of the might as wells. It will be great
when it's done!!!

You need to get a copy of the Navion Societies "How to buy a Navion".
It's a bit dated, but so are the planes :-). We had a GO-435 engine in
ours. It was great while it lasted, but when it blows you really need to
re-engine and that's $$$$. If you know that going in it isn't too bad and
ours lasted 6 years. If you can find one with a big (modern) engine in it
from the start it is great, but more expensive.

You should join the societies now and get to know some Navion folks. They
are your best resources when you are looking at planes. If you can find
the local Navion mechanic that would be a big help also.


Margy

Ads
  #2  
Old August 11th 03, 07:17 PM
Montblack
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Default

Not sure I understand who is the bad guy here. Who is making the "bogus"
parts?

Sierra Hotel Aero bought, at auction, the Navion type certificate (etc) this
past December. Are they now trying to protect their auction purchase -
Navion's type certificate. Is this a bad thing in Navion owners' eyes, or a
good thing?

Are others making parts without Sierra Hotel Aero's ok. Do they need the ok?
Is this where the battle lines are? Who's winning so far?

What do you project the fuel burn per hour numbers will be in you Navion?
Will it be fuel injected? IO550. Does the "I" stand for in-line or (fuel)
injected?

Will you get a paperwork increase in useful load with the bigger HP engine?

--
Montblack


("Margy Natalie" wrote)

Not bad at all. One guy just bought the contents of the Navion factory.
From what I've heard, the people that bought the paperwork are trying to
make the parts considered bogus, but I don't think they have a chance.
He got 9 truckloads of parts including things people hadn't seen in
years. The Navion Society has some drawings that they have been making
parts from for years (the guys that bought the rest of the drawings are
trying to make those bogus also). We've never had problems getting parts.

snip


  #3  
Old August 11th 03, 08:19 PM
Margy Natalie
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Default



Montblack wrote:

Not sure I understand who is the bad guy here. Who is making the "bogus"
parts?


No one is making "bogus" parts. Sierra Hotel bought the type certificate and
can make new parts. Classic-Aero bought the parts inventory. SH is saying that
C-A's parts are bad because SH owns the type certificate.


Sierra Hotel Aero bought, at auction, the Navion type certificate (etc) this
past December. Are they now trying to protect their auction purchase -
Navion's type certificate. Is this a bad thing in Navion owners' eyes, or a
good thing?


Having SH own the type certifiicate is good, but it is also good to have 9
truckloads of parts available.


Are others making parts without Sierra Hotel Aero's ok. Do they need the ok?


An owner can make parts for thier own airplane. C-A is selling parts that were
made by the factory 50 years ago.


Is this where the battle lines are? Who's winning so far?


I think they will both win (I hope)



What do you project the fuel burn per hour numbers will be in you Navion?
Will it be fuel injected? IO550. Does the "I" stand for in-line or (fuel)
injected?


It's injected. I'm not sure what the fuel burn will be, but it will be great
when it's done. I expect 16 + or so??


Will you get a paperwork increase in useful load with the bigger HP engine?


I don't think we will as we already had a 260 HP and the tips. We had to
re-engine as we didn't have one that worked and the 520 or the 550 is the way to
go. The 550 became available and we grabbed it.

Margy

  #4  
Old August 11th 03, 09:17 PM
Jay Honeck
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Default

An owner can make parts for thier own airplane. C-A is selling parts that
were
made by the factory 50 years ago.


These are airframe parts, right? There's just something about a fifty
year-old part that worries me, although I can't say exactly why...

It's injected. I'm not sure what the fuel burn will be, but it will be

great
when it's done. I expect 16 + or so??


Hmmm. With our O-540, we can lean it back to 14-15 gph in cruise, but it
gets as high as 25 gph on take off.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #5  
Old August 12th 03, 02:44 AM
G.R. Patterson III
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Default



Jay Honeck wrote:

These are airframe parts, right? There's just something about a fifty
year-old part that worries me, although I can't say exactly why...


Why? Lots of people are flying in collections of fifty year-old parts.

George Patterson
They say that nothing's certain except death and taxes. The thing is,
death doesn't get worse every time Congress goes into session.
Will Rogers
  #6  
Old August 12th 03, 10:27 PM
Jay Honeck
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You wouldn't let a little inter granular corrosion worry you, would you?

Ain't any corrosion on these parts. They've not been stored in Vero Beach
like your Cherokee parts were.


Just curious: Where *were* they stored, Ron?

And who the heck was paying rent on nice, dry, buildings to store old
airplane parts?

And how come no one knew about them? (This is starting to sound like a
Howard Hughes-style story...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #7  
Old August 13th 03, 02:25 PM
Margy Natalie
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Default


Margy

Jay Honeck wrote:

Just curious: Where *were* they stored, Ron?


They were stored by whoever happened to own them at the time (until now the type
certificate and the parts always belonged to one owner). The last place they
were stored was in Ohio, before that Texas I think.



And who the heck was paying rent on nice, dry, buildings to store old airplane
parts?


Whoever had the type certificate at the time.

And how come no one knew about them? (This is starting to sound like a
Howard Hughes-style story...)
--


Well, the owners of the type certificates up to now had the idea that they would
build Navions, so this was factory stock, not parts available. As far as I can
tell there was no real inventory of the parts. The guy who is working on our
plane bought the whole load and he figures he should have them inventoried
within the year (there are LOTS of parts). I've seen boxes and boxes of parts
and the cardboard on the boxes looked good, so I would guess they haven't seen
water.

Margy

  #8  
Old August 13th 03, 02:41 PM
Ron Natalie
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Default


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:[email protected]
You wouldn't let a little inter granular corrosion worry you, would you?


Ain't any corrosion on these parts. They've not been stored in Vero Beach
like your Cherokee parts were.


Just curious: Where *were* they stored, Ron?


Seguin, Texas and later Bowling Green, Ohio. Currently they are in Aurora Nebraska.
Might have made other stops. Also, a lot of this stuff carried over from the original
North American days. NA had the presense of mind to zinc chromate everything
in sight.

And how come no one knew about them? (This is starting to sound like a
Howard Hughes-style story...)


When the last real Navion "factory" shutdown in around 1971 in Texas, a group
of people founded the American Navion Society and bought up what they could
get of the inventory. Nobody really knew how much other stuff was left squirrelled
away. The type certificate and the factory tooling kind of languished around for
a couple of decades with the general recession of the GA aircraft industry. Around
1996 or so, a group in Bowling Green, OH managed to snag the remains of Navion
Aircraft. They hunted venture capital to see if they could start up the line again.
I guess that didn't succeed (frankly, it's the same old problem, they were going to
build Rangemasters, and why anybody would want a draggy cabin retract at that
price is beyond me). The whole thing was auctioned off last year again. As I
said, SH got the tooling and the paperwork while Classic Aero got nine tractor-trailer
loads of the inventory. These aren't just "spares" these were the backlog of the
assembly line waiting to be built. There are entire wings there.


  #9  
Old August 13th 03, 08:44 PM
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Default

Right you are, and it seems people are still trying to resurrect old
planes at high prices, like the Micco/Meyers and the Tiger. Nice
planes, but...

Anyway, glad there are parts around and for what it's worth, to me it
sounds like Classic Aero is in the right on this one.

What about the Navion's odd little sibling the Twin Navion? Does it
have parts commonality with the rest of the Navion clan?


"Ron Natalie" wrote in message om...
Around
1996 or so, a group in Bowling Green, OH managed to snag the remains of Navion
Aircraft. They hunted venture capital to see if they could start up the line again.
I guess that didn't succeed (frankly, it's the same old problem, they were going to
build Rangemasters, and why anybody would want a draggy cabin retract at that
price is beyond me

  #10  
Old August 13th 03, 08:54 PM
Ron Natalie
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Default


"[email protected]" wrote in message om...
Right you are, and it seems people are still trying to resurrect old
planes at high prices, like the Micco/Meyers and the Tiger. Nice
planes, but...

Anyway, glad there are parts around and for what it's worth, to me it
sounds like Classic Aero is in the right on this one.

What about the Navion's odd little sibling the Twin Navion? Does it
have parts commonality with the rest of the Navion clan?

There are actually two different twin Navions the Riley's and the Camairs.
All twin Navion's started out as canopy singles. They essentially hang
the wing engines on, remove the front engine (evidentally, in some cases
in that order, there's a picture floating around of a Navion "tri-motor" but
I don't believe it actually flew that way), and redo the tail (larger vertical
stab/rudder and rudder trim). Yes there are a lot of common parts.
Actually the first bunch of conversions were just essentialy "field mods."
It is rumored that this "mod" was what led the CAA to come up with the
STC process...


 




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