How were Have Blue and Tacit Blue codenames chosen?

Hobo wrote:

Were the Have Blue and Tacit Blue codenames arbitrary constructions or
was there some sort of logic behind them?

The names (officially called "nicknames") are essentially arbitrary.
However, the first words ("Have" and "Tacit") are not completely
random, because the first two letters must come from a defined subset
allocated to the DOD component or agency, which supervises the program.
The second word can essentially be chosen at will, and in the case of
classified programs is selected to have no connection to the nature of
the program (which is definitely the case for "Blue"). The second word
of open programs is often related to the program, e.g. the conversion
of F-106s to QF-106 drones was made under the name "Pacer Six".

Andreas

re the Have Blue and Tacit Blue codenames arbitrary constructions or
was there some sort of logic behind them?

Arbitrary. I believe they were thrown up by a computer.

It finally dawned on someone that code names tend to be self-breaking
(Overlord!).

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Subject: How were Have Blue and Tacit Blue codenames chosen?
From: Cub Driver
Date: 9/27/2003 6:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Arbitrary. I believe they were thrown up by a computer.

It finally dawned on someone that code names tend to be self-breaking
(Overlord!).

Well, OK. Then, how do they pick exercise/operational codenames?

And how do they name planes?

Since we're on the subject, how do other countries do all this?

And how do they name planes?

It seems to be a collaborative effort between the manufacturer and the
air force. Then, after the uniformly awful names are applied, the
pilots and crews name it something else entirely.

This was always true to a certain extent. Famously, the P-47
Thunderbolt was the Jug. But it has accelerated as the official names
have become worse and worse.

Should we have a contest on worst plane name and best replacement?

Surely the worse plane name was the B-36 Peacemaker, intended to drop
two or more hydrogen bombs upon the Russians.

And the best replacement of course is the Warthog for the A-10
Thunderbolt II.

Another question: how long has it been since the pilots of a USAF
warplane called it by the name assigned to it by the bureaucracy?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:42:27 -0400, Cub Driver
wrote:


And how do they name planes?

It seems to be a collaborative effort between the manufacturer and the
air force. Then, after the uniformly awful names are applied, the
pilots and crews name it something else entirely.

This was always true to a certain extent. Famously, the P-47
Thunderbolt was the Jug. But it has accelerated as the official names
have become worse and worse.

Should we have a contest on worst plane name and best replacement?

Hands down winner, "Fighting Falcon" replaced by "Viper."


Surely the worse plane name was the B-36 Peacemaker, intended to drop
two or more hydrogen bombs upon the Russians.

Not that bad, since the earlier "Peacemaker" was the .45 Colt Single
Action Army. Might really consider the name vindicated when it is
noted that the B-36 never fired a shot in anger over its entire
service life.

And the best replacement of course is the Warthog for the A-10
Thunderbolt II.

Another question: how long has it been since the pilots of a USAF
warplane called it by the name assigned to it by the bureaucracy?

Not that long at all. F-15 Eagle.

There are always going to be "official" names and nicknames. Some
nicknames are going to be affectionately bestowed while others are
going to be a result of envy, dislike or disaffection. Some will be
commonly adopted and some will start as pejoratives and grow into
respect. I personally seldom/never use "Thud" to describe the F-105.
Lots of folks do and for most it has become a respected name.

Same thing is true of individual nicknames or "tactical call-signs."
When I was a squadron ops officer I told my guys that they couldn't
determine what they would be called. It would be a name given them,
not one they chose.

We had a guy come into the squadron, a former FAIP, newly qualified in
the F-4. He had name tags made up reading: "Jim Teak Fighter
Pilot". I told him that he wasn't a fighter pilot until other folks
told him he was. He couldn't unilaterally make the declaration. What
he really had was a misspelled name tag. It was supposed to read:
"Jim, Weak Fighter Pilot". From that day on, his nickname was
"Weak". He wasn't, but the name stuck and he bore it proudly.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:42:27 -0400, Cub Driver

snip
Surely the worse plane name was the B-36 Peacemaker, intended to drop
two or more hydrogen bombs upon the Russians.

Not that bad, since the earlier "Peacemaker" was the .45 Colt Single
Action Army. Might really consider the name vindicated when it is
noted that the B-36 never fired a shot in anger over its entire
service life.

"God created man, Colt made them equal".

Ed Rasimus wrote:

From that day on, his nickname was
"Weak". He wasn't, but the name stuck and he bore it proudly.


I'll bet he earned a lot of respect for bearing that name
'proudly'. I'll also bet that he figured any reticence in that
regard would not look good.. .

Good on him.
--

-Gord.

In article , Cub Driver
wrote:

And how do they name planes?

It seems to be a collaborative effort between the manufacturer and the
air force. Then, after the uniformly awful names are applied, the
pilots and crews name it something else entirely.

It used to be something that the manufacturer did. For example,
North American used the "thunder" series names (Thunderbolt,
Thunderchief, etc); Lockheed used astronomy names (Constellation);
Boeing used terms from the atmosphere (Flying Fortress, Super
Fortress, Strato Fortress, etc).

During WWII, some airplanes were first bought by the Brits, and
the Brits gave them their name. This included the Mustang and
the Lightning.

In the early 50's, there was a scandal about the name of the XP-56.
This was a rear engine airplane that made it to prototype stage
in the late 40's as a fast non-jet airplane to cope with the fast
planes coming out of Germany. The plane was named the Ascender.
It came out that this was a word play on the "ass end engine", or
the Ass-ender. From that point on, the Department of Defense took
over the official naming duty.

Prior to Fighting Bob McNemara taking over the DOD in the early
60's, the DOD pretty much used the names that manufactures suggested.
Starting with Fighting Bob, airplane projects became far more
political, and the names became part of the political game.

Some planes since them remained without names for a long period
of time, such as the F-111, F-117, and B-1. The F-111 was given
its official name only shortly before it was retired. Other programs
are given patriotic names, such as Fighting Falcon and Eagle.

The F-22/23 program started as a flyoff between the YF prototypes before
the winner was awarded contracts for full scale development aircraft.
During the flyoff, the planes used manufactures names, the Thunderchief
II and the Lighting II--designed to bring back memories of great WWII
aircraft. Once a winner was selected, the USAF assigned the name
Raptor to the F-22.

Another unique modern name is the F-14 Tomcat. Grumman has a long
history of building "cat" planes for the US Navy. This includes the
F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, F7F Tigercat, F8F Bearcat, F9F Panther and
Cougar (Panther was straight wing, the Cougar was sweptwing), F10F
Jaguar, and the F11F Tiger. When the F-14 project began, the Deputy
Cheif of Naval Operations of Air, Tom Conolly, was responsible for
the project from the Navy. The F-14 project became known internally
as Tom's Cat. The name stuck, and the official name became the
Tomcat.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message


We had a guy come into the squadron, a former FAIP, newly qualified in
the F-4. He had name tags made up reading: "Jim Teak Fighter
Pilot". I told him that he wasn't a fighter pilot until other folks
told him he was. He couldn't unilaterally make the declaration. What
he really had was a misspelled name tag. It was supposed to read:
"Jim, Weak Fighter Pilot". From that day on, his nickname was
"Weak". He wasn't, but the name stuck and he bore it proudly.

Ed, I've got a question about fighter pilot callnames, nicknames or whatever
you want to call them...I used to work with a Navy pilot at the datacenter I
was employed at a few years back, and he and I had a lot of time to kill on
our shift as it was from 7:00 PM to 7:00 AM (not a lot happening on the east
coast in terms of electronic finance at those hours). Anyway, he'd regale
me with tall tales about his various comings and goings (and seemed
pleasantly surprised that I, a mere civilian, had knowledge of garden spots
like Subic Bay, some rudimentary aircraft knowledge, etc.).

AT ANY RATE...one evening I asked him, jokingly, "So, did you have some
ultra-cool fighter pilot name like "Shark" or "Killer" or "Maverick" or
"Iceman"." and he just sort of frosted a bit and said, "No, my 'handle' was
Sparks."

Later that evening (morning) as the shift ended I was packing up* and bade
him goodbye, I'll see you tomorrow** "sparks". Anyway, he frosted again and
shook his head and said "Don't call me that. You don't get to." He never
mentioned it again, didn't act any different than the friendly guy he was
the next day, etc.

Now I realize you're not a Navy pilot nor do you know the circumstances but
is there a particular reason a pilot might get reeeeeeeealy sensitive about
a handle? (For the record I never brought it up again, nor did he, and life
was good.)

*A 12 hour night shift is about a decade long; you tend to bring books (as
in many in a night), CDs, newspaper, magazines, etc. so leaving at the end
of your shift is like moving out of town.

** as in 12 hours from 7:00AM, being 7:00pm that night

--
http://www.delversdungeon.dragonsfoot.org
Remove the X's in my email address to respond.
"Damn you Silvey, and your endless fortunes." - Stephen Weir
I hate furries.

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:55:12 -0500, "John A. Weeks III"
wrote:


It used to be something that the manufacturer did. For example,
North American used the "thunder" series names (Thunderbolt,
Thunderchief, etc);

That would of course be Republic.

Lockheed used astronomy names (Constellation);

Lockheed use "Star-xxxx" as in Starfighter or Shooting Star or
Starfire. Close enough to astronomy for government work.

Boeing used terms from the atmosphere (Flying Fortress, Super
Fortress, Strato Fortress, etc).

Like Fortress, Fortress, Fortress?

During WWII, some airplanes were first bought by the Brits, and
the Brits gave them their name. This included the Mustang and
the Lightning.

Lockheed's Lightning (astronomy??) wasn't first bought by the Brits.

Prior to Fighting Bob McNemara taking over the DOD in the early
60's, the DOD pretty much used the names that manufactures suggested.
Starting with Fighting Bob, airplane projects became far more
political, and the names became part of the political game.

Don't think we can attribute that to McNamara. On his watch we got the
F-4 Phantom II, named in the tradition of McDonnell with a
supernatural bent following the Voodoo. And the LTV Corsair II,
following Chance-Vought's Corsair.


The F-22/23 program started as a flyoff between the YF prototypes before
the winner was awarded contracts for full scale development aircraft.
During the flyoff, the planes used manufactures names, the Thunderchief
II and the Lighting II--designed to bring back memories of great WWII
aircraft. Once a winner was selected, the USAF assigned the name
Raptor to the F-22.

While Lockheed did dub the -22 as Lightning II, Northrop tried Black
Widow II on F-23. Neither manufacturer would have weathered the
backlash of trying to call their airplane Thunderchief.

I always suggested, while I was at Northrop that based on its
appearance and the previous carnivorous insect name tradition that the
-23 be called "Mantis".

Another unique modern name is the F-14 Tomcat. Grumman has a long
history of building "cat" planes for the US Navy. This includes the
F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, F7F Tigercat, F8F Bearcat, F9F Panther and
Cougar (Panther was straight wing, the Cougar was sweptwing), F10F
Jaguar, and the F11F Tiger. When the F-14 project began, the Deputy
Cheif of Naval Operations of Air, Tom Conolly, was responsible for
the project from the Navy. The F-14 project became known internally
as Tom's Cat. The name stuck, and the official name became the
Tomcat.

So, if Grumman has a long history of building "cat" named aircraft,
how then is Tomcat "unique"?