BGA Instructor Requirements

The BGA instructor qualifications require candidates to have cross
country gliding experience. Is the Silver C satisfactory for all
instructor levels, or do some require more testing cross country
experience.

Instructors in the USA are not required to have any cross country
training or experience. Cross country experience seems unnecessary.
Why is this considered necessary in the BGA? Are USA instructor
requirements and instructors considered to be equal to BGA
instructors? Would a USA instructor easily qualify as a BGA
instructor. Or would they need additional training.

Thanks

126Driver wrote:
The BGA instructor qualifications require candidates to have cross
country gliding experience. Is the Silver C satisfactory for all
instructor levels, or do some require more testing cross country
experience.

Instructors in the USA are not required to have any cross country
training or experience. Cross country experience seems unnecessary.
Why is this considered necessary in the BGA? Are USA instructor
requirements and instructors considered to be equal to BGA
instructors? Would a USA instructor easily qualify as a BGA
instructor. Or would they need additional training.

I've only attained the lowest UK instructor rating (Basic Instructor) -
beyond that are Assistant and Full. This therefore only gives my
personal perspective, and I'm sure better qualified UK pilots will give
you a more detailed answer.

1. In most UK clubs, Silver C is seen as the level at which you have
become a competent pilot who could, for example, make his or her own
decision as to whether he or she is competent to fly in the particular
conditions of the day. Pre-Silver pilots generally need permission from
the duty instructor to fly. (Note that no matter how experienced you
are, you always need permission from the duty instructor to fly, but if
you're Silver and flying from a site you know, this is likely to be more
a courtesy matter, together with a check that you've actually read the
NOTAMs, have a crew sorted if you're flying XC, etc.) Thus it's the
minimum for becoming an instructor.

2. XC experience is not a formal requirement (other than the Silver 50k)
for any instructor rating, but the expectation in most UK clubs is that
an instructor is not merely teaching the student to fly but also to
soar, and to lay the foundation for that student's later XC flying if
the student wants it. For that reason, it's nowadays extremely rare to
find a UK instructor whose only XC experience is the single 50k flight.
Clubs do much of the initial instructor training, before the candidate
attends the official BGA course, and also complete the certification of
Assistants through signoff from the club CFI. I suspect that some (maybe
most) clubs might be reluctant to undertake this training until the
pilot has proved that his/her abilities go beyond the Silver level, and
this would normally be through flying XC.

3. I would guess that US instructors would not be seen as directly
equivalent because all UK instruction is supposed to be standardised to
follow the BGA Instruction Manual (though, of course, every instructor
has an individual approach, and many advanced elements are not covered
in the manual). Thus I think a US instructor would need to learn the UK
manual and then be tested on instructing to that standardised method. As
gliding is self-regulated through the BGA we're pretty non-bureaucratic
- I'm sure that a Burt Compton or Tom Knauff, for example, would talk to
the relevant club CFI and the BGA to devise an appropriate and tailored
programme for qualifying for a UK rating. Given the different methods
used, this would clearly be more than a check flight but less than a
full course (which in any event is not a formal testing programme but
instruction on how to be an instructor - thus I've heard of candidates
"passing" before the end of the course because they've reached the
required standard).

If you're asking as a US instructor moving to the UK, the obvious thing
is to find a club, fly and talk with the CFI, and then discuss next
steps with the BGA, probably via the local Regional Examiner.

The three levels of instructor is interesting and makes sense.
Another difference seems to be orientation in that there is some
expectation that the student may fly cross country some day. I don't
think this is part of USA instruction. I would also guess 80% of the
US instructors have no official cross counry credentials like the
Silver C. But again, this is probably not a problem as you can gain
the knowledge to teach cross country skills by reading the texts on
the topic.

thanks,

Sarcasm at it's best, eh ? ;-)

. But again, this is probably not a problem as you can gain
the knowledge to teach cross country skills by reading the texts on
the topic.

thanks,

"126Driver" wrote in message
ups.com...
The three levels of instructor is interesting and makes sense.
Another difference seems to be orientation in that there is some
expectation that the student may fly cross country some day. I don't
think this is part of USA instruction. I would also guess 80% of the
US instructors have no official cross counry credentials like the
Silver C. But again, this is probably not a problem as you can gain
the knowledge to teach cross country skills by reading the texts on
the topic.

thanks,

It becomes a problem when the instructor conveys the idea to his students
that, "only crazy people go XC". This is, unfortunately, not uncommon under
the US system.

Try suggesting to instructors that they get some cross country experience
and you'll be amazed at the response. I know an instructor that keeps
complaining that, "Instructors get no respect". I asked him if he held any
FAI badges and he said no and he didn't want any. I said, "Well?....

I hate to say it, but maybe we need a change in the FAA instructor applicant
experience requirements (and renewal requirements) to include at least a
Silver Badge.

Bill Daniels

I couldn't agree more! I know of several now CFIG's
that were power instructors and did there private,
commercial and CFIG ratings in one exam with right
at 20 flights and less than 4 hours in gliders and
were teaching the next day. They couldn't even thermal,
but they read the book : ) I have always argued that
if we want to grow the sport, it starts with the instructors.
I was lucky enough (at the same school) to have an
instructor that had flown diamond distance in a 1-26
several times and taught from that perspective.

PS. One of the fast trackers mentioned, a year later
totaled a 2-33 on a takeoff thermal when he broke the
rope and spun it in with a ride passenger. No one hurt
thank god.

At 13:48 26 April 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:

'126Driver' wrote in message
oups.com...
The three levels of instructor is interesting and
makes sense.
Another difference seems to be orientation in that
there is some
expectation that the student may fly cross country
some day. I don't
think this is part of USA instruction. I would also
guess 80% of the
US instructors have no official cross counry credentials
like the
Silver C. But again, this is probably not a problem
as you can gain
the knowledge to teach cross country skills by reading
the texts on
the topic.

thanks,

It becomes a problem when the instructor conveys the
idea to his students
that, 'only crazy people go XC'. This is, unfortunately,
not uncommon under
the US system.

Try suggesting to instructors that they get some cross
country experience
and you'll be amazed at the response. I know an instructor
that keeps
complaining that, 'Instructors get no respect'. I
asked him if he held any
FAI badges and he said no and he didn't want any.
I said, 'Well?....

I hate to say it, but maybe we need a change in the
FAA instructor applicant
experience requirements (and renewal requirements)
to include at least a
Silver Badge.

Bill Daniels

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message
news

I hate to say it, but maybe we need a change in the FAA instructor
applicant experience requirements (and renewal requirements) to include at
least a Silver Badge.


Currently in the US you must have a Silver Badge to participate in SSA
sanctioned contests. It is obvious that the FAA instructor requirements are
out of date.

Aren't instructors the people you go to refine your skills? Shouldn't they
have the skills and knowledge to mentor you in your badge quest?

Soaring would become boring if I didn't have the challenge of cross-country
flight.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder

Well then, maybe we need to say to these "badgeless" instructors, "No
badge - no respect". The motivation to get the CFIG in the first place is
almost always peer approval so, while they will complain loudly, most will
get the badges. The ones that refuse were probably not instructor material
in the first place. In the meantime, it's, "Friends don't let friends take
instruction from badgeless instructors".

Bill Daniels


"Cliff Hilty" wrote in message
...
I couldn't agree more! I know of several now CFIG's
that were power instructors and did there private,
commercial and CFIG ratings in one exam with right
at 20 flights and less than 4 hours in gliders and
were teaching the next day. They couldn't even thermal,
but they read the book : ) I have always argued that
if we want to grow the sport, it starts with the instructors.
I was lucky enough (at the same school) to have an
instructor that had flown diamond distance in a 1-26
several times and taught from that perspective.

PS. One of the fast trackers mentioned, a year later
totaled a 2-33 on a takeoff thermal when he broke the
rope and spun it in with a ride passenger. No one hurt
thank god.

At 13:48 26 April 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:

'126Driver' wrote in message
roups.com...
The three levels of instructor is interesting and
makes sense.
Another difference seems to be orientation in that
there is some
expectation that the student may fly cross country
some day. I don't
think this is part of USA instruction. I would also
guess 80% of the
US instructors have no official cross counry credentials
like the
Silver C. But again, this is probably not a problem
as you can gain
the knowledge to teach cross country skills by reading
the texts on
the topic.

thanks,

It becomes a problem when the instructor conveys the
idea to his students
that, 'only crazy people go XC'. This is, unfortunately,
not uncommon under
the US system.

Try suggesting to instructors that they get some cross
country experience
and you'll be amazed at the response. I know an instructor
that keeps
complaining that, 'Instructors get no respect'. I
asked him if he held any
FAI badges and he said no and he didn't want any.
I said, 'Well?....

I hate to say it, but maybe we need a change in the
FAA instructor applicant
experience requirements (and renewal requirements)
to include at least a
Silver Badge.

Bill Daniels

I know some badgeless instructors who are good at it
-- in terms of teaching flying skill, safety, etc.,
and who do not have badges. One of them has aerobatic
flight in gliders as a special interest, one has flown
everything going and just has no interest in heading
out any more.

I agree that they don't give the students the kind
of challenge that will make staying with the sport
a likelihood, but other instructors provide that.
These guys are not the only instructors that the students
have during their training (club environment).

I recall the time in my early days when a USA commercial
glider pilot was the only kind of instructors we had.
The trainers were the 2-22s and commercial pilot 'instructors'
was the only way to keep the sport alive in many states
far removed from CA and NY.

I don't argue for this by any means, but such people
can give sound instruction in the basics. As I understand
it, the BGA allows beginning level instructors for
this basic instruction. I'd be more interested in
seeing a tiered instructor level like that for the
US than a wholesale requirement that all instructors
be required to have a gold badge. Many clubs have
no instructor at all and can't find or produce one.
They must depend on the commercial operators for training
(sometimes in other states) and that limits club growth.
We all need a better world.

At 15:18 26 April 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:
Well then, maybe we need to say to these 'badgeless'
instructors, 'No
badge - no respect'. The motivation to get the CFIG
in the first place is
almost always peer approval so, while they will complain
loudly, most will
get the badges. The ones that refuse were probably
not instructor material
in the first place. In the meantime, it's, 'Friends
don't let friends take
instruction from badgeless instructors'.

Bill Daniels


'Cliff Hilty' wrote in message
...
I couldn't agree more! I know of several now CFIG's
that were power instructors and did there private,
commercial and CFIG ratings in one exam with right
at 20 flights and less than 4 hours in gliders and
were teaching the next day. They couldn't even thermal,
but they read the book : ) I have always argued that
if we want to grow the sport, it starts with the instructors.
I was lucky enough (at the same school) to have an
instructor that had flown diamond distance in a 1-26
several times and taught from that perspective.

PS. One of the fast trackers mentioned, a year later
totaled a 2-33 on a takeoff thermal when he broke
the
rope and spun it in with a ride passenger. No one
hurt
thank god.

At 13:48 26 April 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:

'126Driver' wrote in message
groups.com...
The three levels of instructor is interesting and
makes sense.
Another difference seems to be orientation in that
there is some
expectation that the student may fly cross country
some day. I don't
think this is part of USA instruction. I would also
guess 80% of the
US instructors have no official cross counry credentials
like the
Silver C. But again, this is probably not a problem
as you can gain
the knowledge to teach cross country skills by reading
the texts on
the topic.

thanks,

It becomes a problem when the instructor conveys the
idea to his students
that, 'only crazy people go XC'. This is, unfortunately,
not uncommon under
the US system.

Try suggesting to instructors that they get some cross
country experience
and you'll be amazed at the response. I know an instructor
that keeps
complaining that, 'Instructors get no respect'. I
asked him if he held any
FAI badges and he said no and he didn't want any.
I said, 'Well?....

I hate to say it, but maybe we need a change in the
FAA instructor applicant
experience requirements (and renewal requirements)
to include at least a
Silver Badge.

Bill Daniels

On Apr 26, 6:59 am, 126Driver wrote:
The three levels of instructor is interesting and makes sense.
Another difference seems to be orientation in that there is some
expectation that the student may fly cross country some day. I don't
think this is part of USA instruction. I would also guess 80% of the
US instructors have no official cross counry credentials like the
Silver C. But again, this is probably not a problem as you can gain
the knowledge to teach cross country skills by reading the texts on
the topic.

thanks,


with the book knowledge you can teach the theory of speed to fly etc.
Im a firm believer in teaching by doing when it comes to XC though.