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#31
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Outside reference in IMC
On May 20, 7:30*pm, "Bob F." wrote:
Extra credit points! *The statement below is incomplete (hint: qualification is missing). *There are lots of places in US airspace where you could be IMC and NOT fly under IFR rules, and no flight plan...where are they? Where Mx has never departed with him flying a real plane....... Unless secretarial chairs have the ability to leave the (G)round. |
#32
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Outside reference in IMC
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#33
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Outside reference in IMC
On May 20, 9:11 pm, Marty Shapiro
wrote: "Bob F." wrote m: Extra credit points! The statement below is incomplete (hint: qualification is missing). There are lots of places in US airspace where you could be IMC and NOT fly under IFR rules, and no flight plan...where are they? Glass G airspace. Lot's of it out west. Even in class G you must still follow all the IFR rules, except you don't need a ATC clearance. |
#34
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Outside reference in IMC
On May 20, 9:45*pm, romeomike wrote:
IMO, given that an overcast may obscure the horizon and not be "level" or at the same altitude as you progress, I would think you would be justified in logging it. I for one would want to be scanning instruments to make sure I'm maintaining altitude, course, level wings, etc. It wouldn't be quite as intense as if I were in the clouds, but justifiable to the feds if they examined my log book. I'm sure there are scenarios that would generate debate but maybe not this one? While I personally don't log it in my logbook as IMC time, I think like you, it's IMC since like you said, sloping clouds give an illusion of a false horizon. In my training, my instructor said no, it's not, and we were between layers! The second reason I personally think it's IMC, is that you have no ground reference to fly by and have to use instruments to navigate. |
#35
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Outside reference in IMC
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#36
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Outside reference in IMC
On May 20, 11:21*pm, romeomike wrote:
I'm not an ultimate authority on this, but I don't get your instructor's point of view. If someone else can explain how in this scenario one can safely fly without reference to instruments, you and I are sure to learn something. Yep, I didn't get it either but in the full scheme of things, I wasn't complaining, as at least I had an instructor who wasn't afraid of touching a cloud. He went on to the regionals, and my second instructor wouldn't fly in ceilings less then 1000.and my airport minimums was 1/2 that. On the other hand, the second instructor had much better cockpit management so I did have the best of both worlds. |
#37
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Outside reference in IMC
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#38
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Outside reference in IMC
Andrew Sarangan wrote in
: On May 20, 9:11 pm, Marty Shapiro wrote: "Bob F." wrote m: Extra credit points! The statement below is incomplete (hint: qualification is missing). There are lots of places in US airspace where you could be IMC and NOT fly under IFR rules, and no flight plan...where are they? Glass G airspace. Lot's of it out west. Even in class G you must still follow all the IFR rules, except you don't need a ATC clearance. All of them? Any FAR which states "when operating is controlled air space" doesn't apply. That still leaves a few, but most of them are gone. Communication with ATC? Not required in G. Flight plan? Not required in G. No need to file or activate. Altitude? Well, yes. But with no ATC communication requirement, you can change it anytime you want. Unless I missed something in a quick scan, 91.179 doesn't address altitudes below 2,000' AGL and over a flat area, such as a desert, you only need to be 1,000' AGL per 91.177. So, the rules on altidude based on direction of flight does not necessarily apply. If they did in G which only goes to 1,200' AGL, all IFR traffic there would be one way. Fuel on board? Well, I guess if you got ramped checked, you should have statutory IFR reserves on departure, but since you're not required to have a flight plan in G, what would be used to determine if you met IFR reserves? Malfunctions? No report required in G. Instrument currency? Absolutely must have. No exceptions for class G! SFAR 97 only applies to published routes, which are at least class E. So, although it would be very stupid to do so, you can fly IFR in class G airspace and not follow most of the IFR rules. -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#40
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Outside reference in IMC
On Tue, 20 May 2008 20:30:20 -0400, "Bob F."
wrote: Extra credit points! The statement below is incomplete (hint: qualification is missing). There are lots of places in US airspace where you could be IMC and NOT fly under IFR rules, and no flight plan...where are they? Class G space. |
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