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#42
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quick question -
Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
: george wrote in : On Jul 20, 1:31 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Cubdriver usenet AT danford DOT net wrote : On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:01:17 -0700 (PDT), george wrote: It was a J2. PA18s have electrics AFAIK they have electric start. Sheer luxury The J-2s, J-3s, and PA-11s were all built without electrics. The PA-18 was built in a variety of styles, with engines ranging from 95 hp to 150 hp. The early models had no flaps and a single wing tank. Oddly enough, the best book on Piper aircraft (by Roger Peperell) doesn't address the subject of electrics. Peter Bowers's book says that as first offered, the "standard" version of the PA-18 had no electrics, while the "deluxe" had a starter, battery, etc. Flaps were added in the PA-18-125. The early Super Cubs were less than $3000. I am just getting acquainted with a Legend Cub, which is essentially a PA-11 with electrics added, two wing tanks, no flaps, a cockpit three inches wider than the original, and doors/windows on both sides. Fully kitted out, it goes for about $130,000. About half that increase is simply the devaluation of the dollar since 1945. The other Cub I fly is a 1946 J-3 that went out the door for $2300 in August that year. We are required to carry $60,000 hull insurance in order to rent it. Its actual resale value is probably something in the neighborhood of $40,000. Even though the PA 18 is seen as a cub, it's really quite a different airplane. The Cubs through the 11 were really parasol aircraft with an encolsure added, wheras the Supercub was a true cabin aricraft. .. Yup. That was my bad I just posted without looking up the details in the log book. Oh i wasn't correcting, just pointing out some cub trivia. However you want to see my handsome youthful (1966) features take a look at http://www.koekejunction.hnpl.net/Pages/Flying.htm Rallye. Shudder! ?I flew one of those that was lucky to do 300 fpm. You didn't fly the right Rallye! The Rallye product line light air frames ran the gamut from a 2 seat 100 HP Rolls-Royce engine through a 4 seat 180 HP Lycoming O-360. The more common 2 seaters, and the Koliber clone, have 150 HP engines. The 4 seat heavy air frames, which included 2 hard points on each wing, were either the 220 HP Franklin engine or the 235 HP Lycoming 0-545. With either of the heavy air frames, you get a pretty good climb rate. -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#43
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quick question -
Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
: george wrote in : On Jul 20, 8:29 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: george wrote innews:5320ec8d-3a86-41a6-a201- om: On Jul 20, 1:31 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Cubdriver usenet AT danford DOT net wrote : On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:01:17 -0700 (PDT), george wrote: It was a J2. PA18s have electrics AFAIK they have electric start. Sheer luxury The J-2s, J-3s, and PA-11s were all built without electrics. The PA-18 was built in a variety of styles, with engines ranging from 95 hp to 150 hp. The early models had no flaps and a single wing tank. Oddly enough, the best book on Piper aircraft (by Roger Peperell) doesn't address the subject of electrics. Peter Bowers's book says that as first offered, the "standard" version of the PA-18 had no electrics, while the "deluxe" had a starter, battery, etc. Flaps were added in the PA-18-125. The early Super Cubs were less than $3000. I am just getting acquainted with a Legend Cub, which is essentially a PA-11 with electrics added, two wing tanks, no flaps, a cockpit three inches wider than the original, and doors/windows on both sides. Fully kitted out, it goes for about $130,000. About half that increase is simply the devaluation of the dollar since 1945. The other Cub I fly is a 1946 J-3 that went out the door for $2300 in August that year. We are required to carry $60,000 hull insurance in order to rent it. Its actual resale value is probably something in the neighborhood of $40,000. Even though the PA 18 is seen as a cub, it's really quite a different airplane. The Cubs through the 11 were really parasol aircraft with an encolsure added, wheras the Supercub was a true cabin aricraft. .. Yup. That was my bad I just posted without looking up the details in the log book. Oh i wasn't correcting, just pointing out some cub trivia. However you want to see my handsome youthful (1966) features take a look at http://www.koekejunction.hnpl.net/Pages/Flying.htm Rallye. Shudder! ?I flew one of those that was lucky to do 300 fpm. The Cub yes. It was actually quite dangerous to fill the seats However the MS885 was a pretty good short field machine and I used to drop in on the farmers in the family. I meant the Rallye, actually. Might have been a bad one though. It was one of the 100hp ones which the one you were in looks to be the same. It went up at a good angle but at a low rate. I think even a J3 would outclimb it. I flew a J-2 two up once and it needed a calender for rate of climb! Bertie The deck angle for a Rallye in a Vx climb can be frightening when compared to Cessna's and Pipers. At Vy, you have a noticeably steeper deck angle than Warriors, Archers, C172s, C182s, and Arrows. When I'm carrying passengers who are not pilots and have never been in a Rallye, I pitch for a cruise climb on take off. It still beats Vy on most just about all the single engine Pipers and Cessnas. -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#44
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quick question -
Marty Shapiro wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : george wrote in news:550d2736-60f8-4b70-b33a-50cf54871587 @f40g2000pri.googlegroups.com : On Jul 20, 8:29 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: george wrote innews:5320ec8d-3a86-41a6-a201- om: On Jul 20, 1:31 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Cubdriver usenet AT danford DOT net wrote : On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:01:17 -0700 (PDT), george wrote: It was a J2. PA18s have electrics AFAIK they have electric start. Sheer luxury The J-2s, J-3s, and PA-11s were all built without electrics. The PA-18 was built in a variety of styles, with engines ranging from 95 hp to 150 hp. The early models had no flaps and a single wing tank. Oddly enough, the best book on Piper aircraft (by Roger Peperell) doesn't address the subject of electrics. Peter Bowers's book says that as first offered, the "standard" version of the PA-18 had no electrics, while the "deluxe" had a starter, battery, etc. Flaps were added in the PA-18-125. The early Super Cubs were less than $3000. I am just getting acquainted with a Legend Cub, which is essentially a PA-11 with electrics added, two wing tanks, no flaps, a cockpit three inches wider than the original, and doors/windows on both sides. Fully kitted out, it goes for about $130,000. About half that increase is simply the devaluation of the dollar since 1945. The other Cub I fly is a 1946 J-3 that went out the door for $2300 in August that year. We are required to carry $60,000 hull insurance in order to rent it. Its actual resale value is probably something in the neighborhood of $40,000. Even though the PA 18 is seen as a cub, it's really quite a different airplane. The Cubs through the 11 were really parasol aircraft with an encolsure added, wheras the Supercub was a true cabin aricraft. .. Yup. That was my bad I just posted without looking up the details in the log book. Oh i wasn't correcting, just pointing out some cub trivia. However you want to see my handsome youthful (1966) features take a look at http://www.koekejunction.hnpl.net/Pages/Flying.htm Rallye. Shudder! ?I flew one of those that was lucky to do 300 fpm. The Cub yes. It was actually quite dangerous to fill the seats However the MS885 was a pretty good short field machine and I used to drop in on the farmers in the family. I meant the Rallye, actually. Might have been a bad one though. It was one of the 100hp ones which the one you were in looks to be the same. It went up at a good angle but at a low rate. I think even a J3 would outclimb it. I flew a J-2 two up once and it needed a calender for rate of climb! Bertie The deck angle for a Rallye in a Vx climb can be frightening when compared to Cessna's and Pipers. At Vy, you have a noticeably steeper deck angle than Warriors, Archers, C172s, C182s, and Arrows. When I'm carrying passengers who are not pilots and have never been in a Rallye, I pitch for a cruise climb on take off. It still beats Vy on most just about all the single engine Pipers and Cessnas. Yeahm but you have a big engine one, don;t you? Been years since I've flown one, but the slats should alter the chord line and give a high deck angle with no flaps out. Bertie |
#45
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quick question -
Marty Shapiro wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : george wrote in news:5320ec8d-3a86-41a6-a201- : On Jul 20, 1:31 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Cubdriver usenet AT danford DOT net wrote : On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:01:17 -0700 (PDT), george wrote: It was a J2. PA18s have electrics AFAIK they have electric start. Sheer luxury The J-2s, J-3s, and PA-11s were all built without electrics. The PA-18 was built in a variety of styles, with engines ranging from 95 hp to 150 hp. The early models had no flaps and a single wing tank. Oddly enough, the best book on Piper aircraft (by Roger Peperell) doesn't address the subject of electrics. Peter Bowers's book says that as first offered, the "standard" version of the PA-18 had no electrics, while the "deluxe" had a starter, battery, etc. Flaps were added in the PA-18-125. The early Super Cubs were less than $3000. I am just getting acquainted with a Legend Cub, which is essentially a PA-11 with electrics added, two wing tanks, no flaps, a cockpit three inches wider than the original, and doors/windows on both sides. Fully kitted out, it goes for about $130,000. About half that increase is simply the devaluation of the dollar since 1945. The other Cub I fly is a 1946 J-3 that went out the door for $2300 in August that year. We are required to carry $60,000 hull insurance in order to rent it. Its actual resale value is probably something in the neighborhood of $40,000. Even though the PA 18 is seen as a cub, it's really quite a different airplane. The Cubs through the 11 were really parasol aircraft with an encolsure added, wheras the Supercub was a true cabin aricraft. .. Yup. That was my bad I just posted without looking up the details in the log book. Oh i wasn't correcting, just pointing out some cub trivia. However you want to see my handsome youthful (1966) features take a look at http://www.koekejunction.hnpl.net/Pages/Flying.htm Rallye. Shudder! ?I flew one of those that was lucky to do 300 fpm. You didn't fly the right Rallye! The Rallye product line light air frames ran the gamut from a 2 seat 100 HP Rolls-Royce engine through a 4 seat 180 HP Lycoming O-360. The more common 2 seaters, and the Koliber clone, have 150 HP engines. The 4 seat heavy air frames, which included 2 hard points on each wing, were either the 220 HP Franklin engine or the 235 HP Lycoming 0-545. With either of the heavy air frames, you get a pretty good climb rate. Oh yeah. Obviously! The little engine ones went OK and I even flew an ST and did some aerobatics in it, which it did farily well compared to similar airplanes. In Europe they're nicknamed the "tin parachute" for their ability to settle to earth with the stick fully back at a minimal rate. The idea being that someone who gets stuck in IMC without the ability to fly out of it can close the power, pull the stick back and probably have a better chance than thye would if they continued to push onwards. The engine out scenario was supposed to be the same. I wouldn't like to try it, however! Bertie |
#46
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quick question -
Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
: Oh yeah. Obviously! The little engine ones went OK and I even flew an ST and did some aerobatics in it, which it did farily well compared to similar airplanes. In Europe they're nicknamed the "tin parachute" for their ability to settle to earth with the stick fully back at a minimal rate. The idea being that someone who gets stuck in IMC without the ability to fly out of it can close the power, pull the stick back and probably have a better chance than thye would if they continued to push onwards. The engine out scenario was supposed to be the same. I wouldn't like to try it, however! Bertie I've played with this one year when when I did the return to service flight after an annual. Power off, stick full back, full flaps, you are descending at about 1,050 fpm with an indicated air speed of about 35 MPH (it bounces between 30 and 40) and the nose bobbling on the horizon. Note that the descent rate in this mode is the same as that of a Cirrus with the chute popped. Now if SOCATA had beefed up the seats to handle the impact, they would have had a true tin parachute. -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#47
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quick question -
Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
: Yeahm but you have a big engine one, don;t you? Been years since I've flown one, but the slats should alter the chord line and give a high deck angle with no flaps out. Yes, I have the 235. I've never flown the smaller ones. The deck angle is even higher with the flaps out. When I want to pop it off the runway, I use 1/2 flaps (at this setting, they are pretty much only about 15 degrees down, but at maximum extension)and pitch for Vx. Trim for Vx and then simply raising the flaps will lower the nose slightly and put me right on Vy. The slats, as you know, are automatic, and will pretty much stay out in a climb until you lower the nose to about 85-90 MPH indicated. The slats are in for a cruise climb (106 MPH). -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#48
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quick question -
Marty Shapiro wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Oh yeah. Obviously! The little engine ones went OK and I even flew an ST and did some aerobatics in it, which it did farily well compared to similar airplanes. In Europe they're nicknamed the "tin parachute" for their ability to settle to earth with the stick fully back at a minimal rate. The idea being that someone who gets stuck in IMC without the ability to fly out of it can close the power, pull the stick back and probably have a better chance than thye would if they continued to push onwards. The engine out scenario was supposed to be the same. I wouldn't like to try it, however! Bertie I've played with this one year when when I did the return to service flight after an annual. Power off, stick full back, full flaps, you are descending at about 1,050 fpm with an indicated air speed of about 35 MPH (it bounces between 30 and 40) and the nose bobbling on the horizon. Note that the descent rate in this mode is the same as that of a Cirrus with the chute popped. Now if SOCATA had beefed up the seats to handle the impact, they would have had a true tin parachute. hmm, that sounds survivable allright. and the lighter airplanes would probably be even just a bit less. Doesn't sound like something your chiropractor woudl approve of, but it would be better than spearing in out of a spiral dive, which is the more traditional way of getting out of situation A. Bertie |
#49
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quick question -
Marty Shapiro wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Yeahm but you have a big engine one, don;t you? Been years since I've flown one, but the slats should alter the chord line and give a high deck angle with no flaps out. Yes, I have the 235. I've never flown the smaller ones. The deck angle is even higher with the flaps out. When I want to pop it off the runway, I use 1/2 flaps (at this setting, they are pretty much only about 15 degrees down, but at maximum extension)and pitch for Vx. Trim for Vx and then simply raising the flaps will lower the nose slightly and put me right on Vy. The slats, as you know, are automatic, and will pretty much stay out in a climb until you lower the nose to about 85-90 MPH indicated. The slats are in for a cruise climb (106 MPH). hmmm, strange that the angle would be higher with flaps out, The mean chord line should change and require a lower deck angle for a given airspeed. Bertie |
#50
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quick question -
On Jul 20, 6:23 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Oh yeah. Obviously! The little engine ones went OK and I even flew an ST and did some aerobatics in it, which it did farily well compared to similar airplanes. In Europe they're nicknamed the "tin parachute" for their ability to settle to earth with the stick fully back at a minimal rate. The idea being that someone who gets stuck in IMC without the ability to fly out of it can close the power, pull the stick back and probably have a better chance than thye would if they continued to push onwards. The engine out scenario was supposed to be the same. I wouldn't like to try it, however! Yup. I heard the same story about some-one in France lost above cloud who used that technique. As I soloed in the Rallye featured in the photo I have a lot of regard for that particular aeroplane. As to stability there -was- a private owner who would drop the control lock over the stick and concentrate on his navigation. Marty What are the new Socatta (I think they're called) like to fly? and do they have lockable slots ? Used to be quite distracting on a crosscountry for the passengers with them banging away .. |
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