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Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 25th 20, 02:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

Jfitch, I just acquired another restoration project which still has one of the old pellet varios lol. I always wondered how immediate the response time was with them.

As to flying ships with the higher wing loading and faster cruise/thermal speeds, yep, thats an entirely different situation. Electronics become more vital for efficient flying. I still made a point of flying occassionaly with just my mechanical vario when I had my ventus just to train my a.s.s. as to how my ship felt when plowing thru lift and how to center up a thermal without accurate aids. I remember one flight trying to get home from hawthorne late in the day when my battery pooped out. I got home using the mechanical winter, and watching when the airspeed would slightly jump when entering mild lift. That little jump in airspeed told me what I needed to know ling before the winter said anything lol.
  #22  
Old January 25th 20, 03:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 8:39:31 AM UTC-5, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also.

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6


You can still obtain the AirGlide with the Triadis sensors and cables. Just ask around. Nothing is even comes close to its abilities. Can be used without a TE probe with astonishing accuracy.
  #23  
Old January 25th 20, 02:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

The quality of earlier Borgelt varios suggest that the Dynamis is unlikely to be vaporware. However user reports and price info would be welcome.
  #24  
Old January 25th 20, 03:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 8:41:09 AM UTC-5, waremark wrote:
The quality of earlier Borgelt varios suggest that the Dynamis is unlikely to be vaporware. However user reports and price info would be welcome.


It is likely to be a good variometer, but not many will spend over $5k on a vario that has not been tested and compared to AirGlide vario that costs much less and looks much better. I would also hope the new veriometer would have a better user interface, and not require clunky additional pieces that one would have to install to control it or rely on software like Oudie, very unattractive solution.

Mike is a good guy but his website gives no useful information, with last update 18 months ago.
  #25  
Old January 25th 20, 05:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tim Taylor
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

Andrzej is correct. The Borgelt vario is hopefully a good vario, but it is unlikely to find much acceptance. I offered to pay for all shipping costs to try a unit and was informed that Borgelt has never offered units for testing. I had flown with a B50 for many years and had hoped that the new vario would provide an opertunity for Borgelt to begin penetrating the market again. I have been able to test fly most other varios in the past. As an engineer, when a company is not will to let you test what they are selling it is a red flag.

1. Units need to be made available for testing.
2. The user interface needs a complete overhaul to be streamlined like all other modern varios. Today we expect a vario to provide much more information than 20 years ago all in a single package without an external readout that doesn't even fit a modern panel.

I hope the Borgelt vario is as good as claimed and they will invest in putting it in an improved user interface.

  #26  
Old January 25th 20, 06:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Saturday, 25 January 2020 18:04:45 UTC+2, Tim Taylor wrote:
Andrzej is correct. The Borgelt vario is hopefully a good vario, but it is unlikely to find much acceptance. I offered to pay for all shipping costs to try a unit and was informed that Borgelt has never offered units for testing. I had flown with a B50 for many years and had hoped that the new vario would provide an opertunity for Borgelt to begin penetrating the market again. I have been able to test fly most other varios in the past. As an engineer, when a company is not will to let you test what they are selling it is a red flag.

1. Units need to be made available for testing.
2. The user interface needs a complete overhaul to be streamlined like all other modern varios. Today we expect a vario to provide much more information than 20 years ago all in a single package without an external readout that doesn't even fit a modern panel.

I hope the Borgelt vario is as good as claimed and they will invest in putting it in an improved user interface.


I have never ever heard anyone getting a variometer for test from dealer or manufacturer before buying it. Just installing magnetometer properly is easily couple of days work.
  #27  
Old January 26th 20, 05:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

krasw wrote on 1/25/2020 9:47 AM:
On Saturday, 25 January 2020 18:04:45 UTC+2, Tim Taylor wrote:
Andrzej is correct. The Borgelt vario is hopefully a good vario, but it is unlikely to find much acceptance. I offered to pay for all shipping costs to try a unit and was informed that Borgelt has never offered units for testing. I had flown with a B50 for many years and had hoped that the new vario would provide an opertunity for Borgelt to begin penetrating the market again. I have been able to test fly most other varios in the past. As an engineer, when a company is not will to let you test what they are selling it is a red flag.

1. Units need to be made available for testing.
2. The user interface needs a complete overhaul to be streamlined like all other modern varios. Today we expect a vario to provide much more information than 20 years ago all in a single package without an external readout that doesn't even fit a modern panel.

I hope the Borgelt vario is as good as claimed and they will invest in putting it in an improved user interface.


I have never ever heard anyone getting a variometer for test from dealer or manufacturer before buying it. Just installing magnetometer properly is easily couple of days work.

Loaning instruments to competent pilots before production begins, and even after
is common. These are the people you want to test your product, so you can catch
problems before they can annoy a larger number of people and tarnish your
reputation. Perhaps Bergelt feels they are past that stage, but it hasn't be
communicated to us.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #28  
Old January 26th 20, 02:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range


It is my understanding that Borgelt has been testing the instrument with local and experienced pilots for quite some time. Just because they are not located in this country does not mean they are not being tested.

I have an AirGlide vario that I am very pleased with- at least in comparison to other current and past instruments. Although it is somewhat unclear how signals from the inertial platform are incorporated/filtered in the displays, utilizing this real-time data makes a much more useful instrument compared to the long delays associated with pneumatic-dedicated approaches and spurious influences from inertial effects and atmospheric gusting.

Mike Borgelt's stated goal to address the problems associated with the airmass contained in the vertical plumbing of modern systems could yield another significant improvement. We'll have to see.

There is a significant need for another type of soaring instrument altogether which has never been addressed in the market. Paul MacCready, Taras Kicenicuk and I were able to successfully implement such a system in some DARPA funded work in 2002. This is not directly applicable to soaring due to IGC rules re autopilot type controls. To be especially useful within IGC parameters, the pilot interface needs to be sublime and the way it integrates with state of the art TE varios would prove essential. I'm supposed to be retired, but have been kicking some ideas around about doing it. Chip Garner and I would likely work the project together. Ideally, someone younger with lots of energy, marketing and business skills could enter the picture and do something significant with it. I've done my own business and marketing with 5 successful start-ups but don't want to spend the time now. I'm retired, I'm getting to fly more, and I'm traveling.

At the present, I'm stuck while recovering from some recent surgery. Which is why I'm posting to RAS more in the past week or two than the last decade or so. And maybe the influence of some pain meds? :-)

Gary Osoba
  #29  
Old January 26th 20, 06:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 8:12:10 AM UTC-5, wrote:
It is my understanding that Borgelt has been testing the instrument with local and experienced pilots for quite some time. Just because they are not located in this country does not mean they are not being tested.

I have an AirGlide vario that I am very pleased with- at least in comparison to other current and past instruments. Although it is somewhat unclear how signals from the inertial platform are incorporated/filtered in the displays, utilizing this real-time data makes a much more useful instrument compared to the long delays associated with pneumatic-dedicated approaches and spurious influences from inertial effects and atmospheric gusting.

Mike Borgelt's stated goal to address the problems associated with the airmass contained in the vertical plumbing of modern systems could yield another significant improvement. We'll have to see.

There is a significant need for another type of soaring instrument altogether which has never been addressed in the market. Paul MacCready, Taras Kicenicuk and I were able to successfully implement such a system in some DARPA funded work in 2002. This is not directly applicable to soaring due to IGC rules re autopilot type controls. To be especially useful within IGC parameters, the pilot interface needs to be sublime and the way it integrates with state of the art TE varios would prove essential. I'm supposed to be retired, but have been kicking some ideas around about doing it. Chip Garner and I would likely work the project together. Ideally, someone younger with lots of energy, marketing and business skills could enter the picture and do something significant with it. I've done my own business and marketing with 5 successful start-ups but don't want to spend the time now. I'm retired, I'm getting to fly more, and I'm traveling.

At the present, I'm stuck while recovering from some recent surgery. Which is why I'm posting to RAS more in the past week or two than the last decade or so. And maybe the influence of some pain meds? :-)

Gary Osoba


Gary, Mike might have been testing the variometer, but I have not seen a single independent article on the performance of the variometer, therefore for me none of it exist. Supposedly a number of pilots are flying with these variometers in Australia, but they are not sharing their experiences.
  #30  
Old January 26th 20, 09:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range


Gary, Mike might have been testing the variometer, but I have not seen a single independent article on the performance of the variometer, therefore for me none of it exist. Supposedly a number of pilots are flying with these variometers in Australia, but they are not sharing their experiences.


Yes, it would be good to see some results and analysis.

Gary
 




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