Stucdent Pilot PIC Time

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
William Snow wrote:
Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??


Huh? Why wouldn't he? If there's no one else in the cockpit, who else possibly
could be in command?



Being in pilot in command is not necessary NOR sufficient in order to
log it.

I had some of the same questions, so I ask the AOPA Pilot Information Center.
Here was they reply.


George,

Thank you for your email.

As a student pilot you can only log PIC time when you are the sole occupant of
the aircraft. You will see that is found in FAR 61.51. After your solo
endorsement you are not rated for the aircraft. As a private pilot once you are
"rated" in the aircraft you can log PIC time for all that time that you are the
sole manipulator of the controls. So add up your solo time as a student pilot
plus your USAF solo time as well as your sole manipulator of the controls after
your obtaining your private and you will have your total PIC time. I hope this
helps you out.

If you have any further questions feel free to contact us at 1-800-872-2672.

Best Regards,

Nathan Rohrbaugh
Aviation Technical Specialist
Pilot Information Center
Fax 301-695-2372
www.aopa.org


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On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:31:04 -0400, "William Snow" wrote:

Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??


GeorgeC

GeorgeC wrote:
As a student pilot you can only log PIC time when you are the sole occupant of
the aircraft. You will see that is found in FAR 61.51. After your solo
endorsement you are not rated for the aircraft. As a private pilot once you are
"rated" in the aircraft you can log PIC time for all that time that you are the
sole manipulator of the controls. So add up your solo time as a student pilot
plus your USAF solo time as well as your sole manipulator of the controls after
your obtaining your private and you will have your total PIC time. I hope this
helps you out.

For your USAF(or airline, etc) time you can also add any time you were
captain in a multicrew aircraft, regardless of who was on the controls.

-Robert

that is the ONLY time he can log PIC, pertinent regulation references have
been posted.

BT

"William Snow" wrote in message
. ..
Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??

What about the private checkride? I found some old threads on this
group but I'd call them inconclusive. 61.47 is clear that the examiner
is not (normally) the PIC and is "not subject to the requirements or
limitations for the carriage of passengers that are specified in this
chapter." So how does that interact with 61.51e4? If the student
can't log it, does no-one log the PIC time?

Someone (probably my instructor) told me to log ny checkride as PIC, so
I did - now I'm wondering if I should change it.

todd.

You were PIC. When I took my chick ride, my examiner told me before we got in
the airplane that I was PIC. I took the hint. When I fly with another pilot, we
always determine in advance who is PIC. It cut down on the confusion. Except
when I fly with my CFII, it's understood that I'm always PIC.

One way to look at it is. If there are two people in the airplane an one (the
examiner) is NOT the PIC, then the other one (you) is.

The reason examiners are not PIC's is so that neither the FAA nor the examiner
can be held liable.

On 28 Sep 2006 01:18:02 -0700, "tjd" wrote:

What about the private checkride? I found some old threads on this
group but I'd call them inconclusive. 61.47 is clear that the examiner
is not (normally) the PIC and is "not subject to the requirements or
limitations for the carriage of passengers that are specified in this
chapter." So how does that interact with 61.51e4? If the student
can't log it, does no-one log the PIC time?

Someone (probably my instructor) told me to log ny checkride as PIC, so
I did - now I'm wondering if I should change it.

todd.

GeorgeC

tjd wrote:

Someone (probably my instructor) told me to log ny checkride as PIC,

As did mine, so I did, and it's staying that way. G

tjd wrote:
What about the private checkride?

Part 91 gives examiners special dispensation to not count
as passengers. Private candidates can hence carry them
under their pilot in command authority. If I were to
get an commercial checkride tomorrow, I could do it without
the three bounces in 90 days rule as well (though unlikely).

"tjd" wrote in message
oups.com...
What about the private checkride? I found some old threads on this
group but I'd call them inconclusive. 61.47 is clear that the examiner
is not (normally) the PIC and is "not subject to the requirements or
limitations for the carriage of passengers that are specified in this
chapter." So how does that interact with 61.51e4? If the student
can't log it, does no-one log the PIC time?

Someone (probably my instructor) told me to log ny checkride as PIC, so
I did - now I'm wondering if I should change it.

You're right that the regs are vague on that point. But it seems to be
accepted practice to log the time as PIC time. Apparently 61.47c is
construed to include an exemption from the sole-occupant provision of
61.51e4 (though that exemption is by no means clear from the wording
itself).

--Gary

"GeorgeC" wrote in message
...
On 28 Sep 2006 01:18:02 -0700, "tjd" wrote:

What about the private checkride? I found some old threads on this
group but I'd call them inconclusive. 61.47 is clear that the examiner
is not (normally) the PIC and is "not subject to the requirements or
limitations for the carriage of passengers that are specified in this
chapter." So how does that interact with 61.51e4? If the student
can't log it, does no-one log the PIC time?

Someone (probably my instructor) told me to log ny checkride as PIC, so
I did - now I'm wondering if I should change it.

You were PIC.

Right, but that's not what he asked; rather, he asked whether the time is
loggable as PIC time. *Being* PIC is not one of the conditions that entitles
you to log PIC time (61.51e).

It's insanely confusing for the FAA to use the term "PIC time", since the
rules for logging "PIC time" have nothing to do with whether or not you're
PIC. It should instead be called "primary flight time" or something.

--Gary