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Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 10th 06, 02:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?

Story by Mac Daniel in the Boston Globe today states that an F-15 fighter
jet, which was escorting Air Force One (President Bush was in Manchester,
NH), had to intercept a 1979 Beechcraft Skipper Plane which was flying in
the restricted airspace. According to the article, the pilot didn't realize
that the airspace over Manchester airport was restricted due to the
president's arrival.

My question to you folks: How does the F-15 get the pilot's attention? And
safely direct the plane to land?

According to the article, the F-15 pilots "did not have to fire flares to
get the pilot's attention." At the same time, the F-15 was dispatched
because "air traffic controllers were unable to make contact with the pilot
by radio." The article doesn't state how the F-15 was able to get the plane
to land, other than this sentence: "The jet escorted the plane out of the
secure zone..."

I'm picturing a gigantic bullhorn, but even more pressing to me is can the
F-15 fly slow enough to "direct" this smaller plane?

Eager to hear some ideas here! Thanks!

Article he http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/02/09/4
_planes_violate_secure_airspace_1_forced_to_land/
--
Rick (www.rickumali.com) Umali
  #2  
Old February 10th 06, 02:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?

Here's a link to a Pilot Intercept Procedures card from AOPA.
http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/intercept.pdf

If you are a pilot, it is a good idea to become familiar with these
procedures, or at least have the card in the cockpit. These TFRs pop
up all the time.

Those F15 pilots are good, slowing down to the speed of a C152.....

  #3  
Old February 10th 06, 06:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?

I'm picturing a gigantic bullhorn, but even more pressing to me is can the F-15 fly slow enough to "direct" this smaller plane?

There are established intercept procedures for GA aircraft. IIRC the
jet would pull alongside the interceptee and try to contact on 121.5 or
use hand signals.

My guess is the stall speed for an F-15 is probably close to the
Skipper's cruise speed, but F-16s have been used to intercept slow
flying GA planes so I figure it shouldn't be too hard for the F-15.

  #4  
Old February 11th 06, 04:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?


wrote in message oups.com...
I'm picturing a gigantic bullhorn, but even more pressing to me is can the F-15 fly slow enough to "direct" this
smaller plane?


There are established intercept procedures for GA aircraft. IIRC the
jet would pull alongside the interceptee and try to contact on 121.5 or
use hand signals.

snip

The intercepting aircraft should rock its wings, and if at night flash the navigation lights. The intercepting
aircraft then should initiate a slow turn, normally to the left to the desired heading to egress the area. The
intercepted aircraft should acknowledge by rocking its wings in return and follow while contacting ATC on 121.5 and
squawking 7700. If the interceptor does a quick climbing =90 degree turn without crossing the interceptee's, (is
that a word?) flight path you can proceed. Rock your wings to acknowledge. If the interceptor circles an airport
and lowers his gear he is telling you to land there. He'll turn on his landing light if it is night time.

Source: AOPA Intercept card. I carry one of these in my flight bag. After this discussion, I think I'll put another
one in my map pocket. Surely I'll be able to find one of them. : ' )

Joe Schneider
N8437R



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  #5  
Old February 11th 06, 02:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?

Rick Umali wrote:
Story by Mac Daniel in the Boston Globe today states that an F-15 fighter
jet, which was escorting Air Force One (President Bush was in Manchester,
NH), had to intercept a 1979 Beechcraft Skipper Plane which was flying in
the restricted airspace. According to the article, the pilot didn't realize
that the airspace over Manchester airport was restricted due to the
president's arrival.

My question to you folks: How does the F-15 get the pilot's attention? And
safely direct the plane to land?

According to the article, the F-15 pilots "did not have to fire flares to
get the pilot's attention." At the same time, the F-15 was dispatched
because "air traffic controllers were unable to make contact with the pilot
by radio." The article doesn't state how the F-15 was able to get the plane
to land, other than this sentence: "The jet escorted the plane out of the
secure zone..."

I'm picturing a gigantic bullhorn, but even more pressing to me is can the
F-15 fly slow enough to "direct" this smaller plane?

Eager to hear some ideas here! Thanks!

Article he http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/02/09/4
_planes_violate_secure_airspace_1_forced_to_land/


I believe the intercept process is described in the AIM.
  #6  
Old February 11th 06, 03:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?

I suspect gear and flaps down speed of a F15 to be around 110 or 120 knots. I
wonder if with the thrust to weight ratio if he could nose up and power up and
hold a much lower grd speed without altitude gain? Any former F15 pilots out
there have the answer?

Ron Gardner

Rick Umali wrote:

Story by Mac Daniel in the Boston Globe today states that an F-15 fighter
jet, which was escorting Air Force One (President Bush was in Manchester,
NH), had to intercept a 1979 Beechcraft Skipper Plane which was flying in
the restricted airspace. According to the article, the pilot didn't realize
that the airspace over Manchester airport was restricted due to the
president's arrival.

My question to you folks: How does the F-15 get the pilot's attention? And
safely direct the plane to land?

According to the article, the F-15 pilots "did not have to fire flares to
get the pilot's attention." At the same time, the F-15 was dispatched
because "air traffic controllers were unable to make contact with the pilot
by radio." The article doesn't state how the F-15 was able to get the plane
to land, other than this sentence: "The jet escorted the plane out of the
secure zone..."

I'm picturing a gigantic bullhorn, but even more pressing to me is can the
F-15 fly slow enough to "direct" this smaller plane?

Eager to hear some ideas here! Thanks!

Article he http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/02/09/4
_planes_violate_secure_airspace_1_forced_to_land/
--
Rick (www.rickumali.com) Umali


  #7  
Old February 11th 06, 04:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:13:11 -0500, Ronald Gardner
wrote in ::

I suspect gear and flaps down speed of a F15 to be around 110 or 120 knots.


Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent F-15s from endangering the public
by exceeding the 250 knot speed limit below 10,000'.
  #8  
Old February 11th 06, 08:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:13:11 -0500, Ronald Gardner
wrote in ::

I suspect gear and flaps down speed of a F15 to be around 110 or 120 knots.


Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent F-15s from endangering the public
by exceeding the 250 knot speed limit below 10,000'.



Umm, military has never been restricted to the 250knot speed. You really
think they are 'endangering the public' when they do this? Do you think
they don't know where YOUR aircraft is long before you see them?

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD

  #9  
Old February 11th 06, 09:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 12:19:25 -0700, Chris Schmelzer
wrote in ::

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:13:11 -0500, Ronald Gardner
wrote in ::

I suspect gear and flaps down speed of a F15 to be around 110 or 120 knots.


Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent F-15s from endangering the public
by exceeding the 250 knot speed limit below 10,000'.



Umm, military has never been restricted to the 250knot speed.


There has been an exemption for military aircraft for some time.

You really think they are 'endangering the public' when they do this?


I believe it is impossible to see fighter aircraft in time to avoid
them, so being a member of the public, I believe I'm endangered by
their high speed below 10,000'.

Do you think they don't know where YOUR aircraft is long before you see them?


Yes. That is exactly what I think. Not only that, I believe that
there are military fighter pilots who don't care where my aircraft is
either.

Are you familiar with the civil/military MACs? Here's some
information for you:
http://tinyurl.com/dpth3
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...4c195356989dec
  #10  
Old February 14th 06, 11:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 12:19:25 -0700, Chris Schmelzer
wrote in ::

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:13:11 -0500, Ronald Gardner
wrote in ::

I suspect gear and flaps down speed of a F15 to be around 110 or 120
knots.

Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent F-15s from endangering the public
by exceeding the 250 knot speed limit below 10,000'.



Umm, military has never been restricted to the 250knot speed.


There has been an exemption for military aircraft for some time.

You really think they are 'endangering the public' when they do this?


I believe it is impossible to see fighter aircraft in time to avoid
them, so being a member of the public, I believe I'm endangered by
their high speed below 10,000'.


Maybe you shouldn't be flying then. Most military fighter aircraft are
several times larger than GA aircraft. Fighter pilots train to pick up
tally's on other fighters out to 10 miles and beyond. Try that with a GA
sized aircraft. That's at closure rates of two supersonic aircraft which
will be around 1000+kts Vc. Our training rules state that pure pursuit must
be ceased by 9000' in order to avoid busting a 500' safety bubble during a
head on attack.

My point is, spend less time looking at your artificial horizon and more
time looking at the window and you'd be suprised on how far away you can see
the larger airplanes.

I'm much more concerned about hitting a C-152 than I am about an F-15
because it's small size.

Next point. Their "high speed below 10,000'" is limited to 300kts. A
whopping 50kts faster than FAA regs. That actually reduces the risk of
collision because in the event that a fighter does not see you till late,
his jet has the energy availble to manauever agressively enough to avoid a
collision. At 250kts and slower a fighter actually takes longer to get out
of your way and increases the risk of a collision.

They are not out there screaming around at 500kts below 10k just for the
heck of it.

The only place fighters are allowed above 300kts below 10,000' is in special
use airspace. (VR/IR low levels, MOAs, restricted airspace, etc)


Do you think they don't know where YOUR aircraft is long before you see
them?


Yes. That is exactly what I think. Not only that, I believe that
there are military fighter pilots who don't care where my aircraft is
either.


You don't have a clue pal.

1) While most fighter pilots have a very good radar which has alot of great
capability, it doesn't always mean your aircraft is within it's scan.
Nothing is perfect. While he may have SA on your position 95% of the time,
he is still responsible for VFR rules and must see and avoid like everyone
else.

2) The last thing any pilot wants to do is have a mid-air. It will ruin his
day just as much as it will ruin yours.


 




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