If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Wind/Solar Electrics ???
After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats, and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter ($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof. Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small grinder, but none of these last few at the same time. My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable source for all this stuff. There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines. Comments appreciated. Jim |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Wind/Solar Electrics ???
"Hefty" solar panels don't come for cheap.
Do you have regular enough winds to use for battery recharging? On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:02:56 -0800, "RST Engineering" wrote: After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats, and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter ($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof. Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small grinder, but none of these last few at the same time. My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable source for all this stuff. There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines. Comments appreciated. Jim ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Wind/Solar Electrics ???
"RST Engineering" wrote in message .. . After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats, and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter ($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof. Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small grinder, but none of these last few at the same time. My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable source for all this stuff. There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines. Comments appreciated. Jim Seems running a generator would be simpler and cheaper. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Wind/Solar Electrics ???
"Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... "Hefty" solar panels don't come for cheap. That's true, but they are about half the price that they were about ten years ago. That said, a small Honda generator when you really need a couple of kW and a few watts of solar panel to keep the aircraft battery batting and the keepalives on the radios keeping may be the hybrid way to go. Do you have regular enough winds to use for battery recharging? Well, we are at 3000' on the west slope of the Sierra on the top of a small hill with nothing (literally) between us and Japan except for a wire fence, and it's down {;-) We get some decent winds, but nothing you can count on. Today, for example, the peak wind was somewhere around 7 knots and the average somewhere around 3 or 4 knots. Then again, last week we had a howler come through here at 40 knots and last for a day. Nothing dependable. Jim |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Wind/Solar Electrics ???
With a small solar panel to keep the continuous load going, not a bad way to
go. Jim Seems running a generator would be simpler and cheaper. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Wind/Solar Electrics ???
RST Engineering wrote:
After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats, and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter ($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof. Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small grinder, but none of these last few at the same time. My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable source for all this stuff. There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines. Comments appreciated. I have no experience with solar so I can't comment. However, I'm wondering if you have considered a small gas or diesel powered generator? It would likely be cheaper initially and less maintance over time, especially if you don't need the power all of the time. Matt |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Wind/Solar Electrics ???
I use Trojan T-105 6 volt batteries in my 5th wheel. They are far and
away better than any automotive or deep cycle 12 volt battery for even several times the price. A friend not far from here has a solar setup like you are contemplating at his hangar. I also have a solar panel on my camper. Here's a couple of links to get you started. You don't have to worry about hail, until it comes down the size of softballs they are impervious to it. I don't know what problems you mean with paralleling batteries but as long as all the batteries are the same they charge just fine. Just make sure you have a charge controller. Mine is a 7 amp because I only have a 75 watt panel. A few hundred watts and about six 6 volt batteries would take care of you. http://www.trojan-battery.com/ http://www.solar-electric.com/ RST Engineering wrote: After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats, and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter ($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof. Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small grinder, but none of these last few at the same time. My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable source for all this stuff. There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines. Comments appreciated. Jim |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Wind/Solar Electrics ???
The generator can provide battery charging capability should the sun or wind let you down. "RST Engineering" wrote in message ... With a small solar panel to keep the continuous load going, not a bad way to go. Jim Seems running a generator would be simpler and cheaper. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Wind/Solar Electrics ???
RST Engineering wrote:
After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats, and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter ($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof. Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small grinder, but none of these last few at the same time. My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable source for all this stuff. There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines. Comments appreciated. Jim First, check on that price again. One thing I learned a while back is, that while that is THEIR price, if you go to an electrical contractor and get a quote for the same work for less, they have to match it! You can save big bucks that way. The only part they HAVE to do is mount and connect the meter. All the rest you can get your own electrician for. If you want to go solar, make a single closet like room, with venting directly outside. Don't use truck batteries, you need deep cycle types. You still end up doing all the wiring from hangar to hangar, and the solar cells and batteries aren't cheap. Neither is the inverter. There might not be as much of a diffence as you would like. Charlie |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Wind/Solar Electrics ???
It could be done, but you'll spend about $8-9 a watt with no rebates cause your not grid connected.
Vist the homepower news groups. Or www.homepower.com You'll need a generator backup, diesel preferred. Calculations for Autonomy, days with out sun. Calculations for collector plate angle, for winter months. Possibly a licensed electrician to install. Depends on local codes. All systems are only %70-74 of their actual panel ratings, So keep this in mind. (its an efficiency thing) And probably a large 1000's of amp hours battery bank to meet the autonomy specs. Assuming 8hrs for lighting, 2K @ 8hrs (24v) is 666AH, usually Autonomy is 4-5 days. So your looking at 2000-3000 of AH battery capacity. (no cheep truck deep cycles here) Plus you'll need to charge them with the PV's ;D. Cheers "RST Engineering" wrote in message .. . After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats, and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter ($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof. Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small grinder, but none of these last few at the same time. My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable source for all this stuff. There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines. Comments appreciated. Jim |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Question on 172 M electrics... (1974 Skyhawk II) | [email protected] | Piloting | 8 | April 10th 04 04:52 AM |