First Glider

On 07 Sep 2004 09:35:40 GMT, (OscarCVox) wrote:

.... text deleted
Avoid wood. They are lovely to fly but you have to spend so much time and money
keeping them in good condition they are not worth it.


Since this is a thread intended for those unfamilar with purchasing
and maintaining sailplanes, I cannot let this statement go
unchallenged.

Older wooden sailplanes are not as robust to mishandling as the newer
fiberglass gliders, and this might be a factor for a club operation.

However, for a personally owned sailplane, older wooden gliders are no
more difficult to keep in good flying condition than any other
sailplane that is given good care. I owned and flew a Ka-6E for half a
dozen years with no significant maintenance problems, and our club has
a pilot who has been flying an early 60's Slingsby Skylark 4 for the
past 30 years with no maintenance problems. Modern synthetic fabrics
can last for decades with proper storage of the sailplane.

Do not rule out a great flying (and very affordable) ship like the
Ka-6 or Skylark for worries about maintenance.

Bob

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Janos Bauer wrote:

OscarCVox wrote:

Were there any other gliders
that compare to the PW5 and the AC5?



std Cirrus, you still can find the manufacturer...
It's a bit tricky to fly it at the beginning (all flying tail) but
after 2-3 landings you will like it.


Suggesting the Std Cirrus "compares" to the PW5 and the AC5 (probably
meant the AC4 - AC5 is a motorglider) is a big stretch. I've flown all
three, owned the Cirrus, and the "bit tricky" part extends well past the
first 2-3 landinds! The other two are easier fly, and I would be safer
for the "low time" pilot. Even then, there are noticeable differences
between a PW5 and an AC4, such as landing speed.


It always depends on the pilot. I did my basic training in IS28B2,
something similar experience would help.
Yes, I always have that strange feeling in my stomach when I sit in
the cirrus but when I'm higher than 100m it disappears and I'm rewarded
with a relatively good performance

/Janos

I forgot to agree with the previous post: YES the trailer is really
important! Don't underestimate it!!

/Janos

Bob,

Your old Ka-6E is stored in a hangar and still airworthy. However, the
current owner has not flown it since I sold it to him eight years ago.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

"Bob Gibbons" wrote in message
...
On 07 Sep 2004 09:35:40 GMT, (OscarCVox) wrote:

... text deleted
Avoid wood. They are lovely to fly but you have to spend so much time and
money
keeping them in good condition they are not worth it.


Since this is a thread intended for those unfamilar with purchasing
and maintaining sailplanes, I cannot let this statement go
unchallenged.

Older wooden sailplanes are not as robust to mishandling as the newer
fiberglass gliders, and this might be a factor for a club operation.

However, for a personally owned sailplane, older wooden gliders are no
more difficult to keep in good flying condition than any other
sailplane that is given good care. I owned and flew a Ka-6E for half a
dozen years with no significant maintenance problems, and our club has
a pilot who has been flying an early 60's Slingsby Skylark 4 for the
past 30 years with no maintenance problems. Modern synthetic fabrics
can last for decades with proper storage of the sailplane.

Do not rule out a great flying (and very affordable) ship like the
Ka-6 or Skylark for worries about maintenance.

Bob

"Janos Bauer" wrote in message
...
It always depends on the pilot. I did my basic training in IS28B2,
something similar experience would help.
Yes, I always have that strange feeling in my stomach when I sit in
the cirrus but when I'm higher than 100m it disappears and I'm rewarded
with a relatively good performance

/Janos

The IS28B2 used as a trainer will prepare a pilot to fly any high
performance flapped ship. I stepped out of one into a Nimbus 2C and felt
right at home. We need another trainer like the Lark to reduce some of the
accidents we see as pilots transition to performance glass.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels wrote:
"Janos Bauer" wrote in message
...

It always depends on the pilot. I did my basic training in IS28B2,
something similar experience would help.
Yes, I always have that strange feeling in my stomach when I sit in
the cirrus but when I'm higher than 100m it disappears and I'm rewarded
with a relatively good performance

/Janos


The IS28B2 used as a trainer will prepare a pilot to fly any high
performance flapped ship. I stepped out of one into a Nimbus 2C and felt
right at home. We need another trainer like the Lark to reduce some of the
accidents we see as pilots transition to performance glass.

Bill Daniels


Ka7 and Bergfalke also seemed to be a bit similar for me.

/Janos

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Janos Bauer wrote:
OscarCVox wrote:

Were there any other gliders
that compare to the PW5 and the AC5?


std Cirrus, you still can find the manufacturer...
It's a bit tricky to fly it at the beginning (all flying tail) but
after 2-3 landings you will like it.

Suggesting the Std Cirrus "compares" to the PW5 and the AC5 (probably
meant the AC4 - AC5 is a motorglider) is a big stretch. I've flown all
three, owned the Cirrus, and the "bit tricky" part extends well past the
first 2-3 landinds! The other two are easier fly, and I would be safer
for the "low time" pilot. Even then, there are noticeable differences
between a PW5 and an AC4, such as landing speed.

I think this guy Jeff did hang gliding, so he's gonna
want to land out a lot, and thermal tight. AC-4c or
Sparrowhawk or Silent or the like sounds like it for him...
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Bob Gibbons wrote:

However, for a personally owned sailplane, older wooden gliders are no
more difficult to keep in good flying condition than any other
sailplane

given good care. and
proper storage of the sailplane.

LOL. Under those conditions, a sailplane made of matchsticks
and toilet paper would fare just as well. Given good care and
proper storage, one can raise baby Bald Eagles too. Good luck.

Stay away from wooden gliders. You don't know if they've
had "good care" or "proper storage" in the past, and
this may be very hard to determine.

I'm reminded of the Citabrias guys with all the inspection
holes in their wings. It didn't matter if you kept
yours in a super dry hanger its whole life, and never flew it.
The wooden AD meant you had to cut holes in the
wings.

So it doesn't always matter how good YOU traet it either.
Stay away from wood. There's a reason it is uncommon
in current aircraft manufacturing.
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Mark James Boyd wrote:

Stay away from wooden gliders. You don't know if they've
had "good care" or "proper storage" in the past, and
this may be very hard to determine.

All aircraft can suffer from improper care and storage. That's why you
inspect them.

I'm reminded of the Citabrias guys with all the inspection
holes in their wings. It didn't matter if you kept
yours in a super dry hanger its whole life, and never flew it.


We had a Citabria that neeeded inspection. As I recall, the AD wasn't
due to rot, but some Citabrias were found to have damaged spars.
Eventually, but after lots of Citabrias were inspected, it was found
that some (all?) of the original ones that started the AD were damaged
by things like blowing over and not having repairs done, or not logged.
I don't think it was primarily a wood issue in the end. We had to
replace some little nails.

The wooden AD meant you had to cut holes in the
wings.

Hey, it was just fabric. Easy to do, easy to fix. Try that with a metal
or fiberglass glider.

Wood doesn't fatigue like metal or fiberglass, but the metal fittings
can. These are easy to inspect. Regardless, you should have whatever you
buy inspected first by a person that knows the material and the aircraft.


So it doesn't always matter how good YOU traet it either.
Stay away from wood. There's a reason it is uncommon
in current aircraft manufacturing.

It is a very expensive way to make aircraft in quantity is a big reason.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

The next time someone sneers at a wooden sailplane, remind them that it is
made of a unidirectional reinforced laminated composite material consisting
of micro-tubular fibres embedded in a long chain polymer matrix and having a
near infinite fatigue life.
tim


Stay away from wooden gliders. You don't know if they've
had "good care" or "proper storage" in the past, and
this may be very hard to determine.

------------+
Mark J. Boyd