Cutting off shirt tails

Does anyone have a clue where the tradition of cutting off the shirt tail of
a newly soloed student began? I believe it has its roots in the military in
WW1.

While we are on the subject of tails, I recall that newly graduated 2nd Lts
were called shave tails. Any suggestions on where this term originated?

Wally

In message , Wally
Samuelson writes
Does anyone have a clue where the tradition of cutting off the shirt tail of
a newly soloed student began? I believe it has its roots in the military in
WW1.

It was my tie when I soloed. It was then pinned to the notice board.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

"M. J. Powell" wrote:

In message , Wally
Samuelson writes
Does anyone have a clue where the tradition of cutting off the shirt tail of
a newly soloed student began? I believe it has its roots in the military in
WW1.

It was my tie when I soloed. It was then pinned to the notice board.

Mike

Solo traditions have varied over time. I've heard of the shirt-tail
clipping, but never seen it done. Clearly the tie cutting is from a
generation long gone, since you can go for a long time without seeing
a tie on a soloing student pilot these days.

When I soloed in a J-3 Cub (Palwaukee Airport, Wheeling IL, 12 May
1962), I got a handshake from my CFI, but no cuttings.

When I soloed in a T-37--first USAF solo--8 Sep 1964, Williams AFB
AZ), I had to buy my IP (Capt. Homer Lee) a bottle of booze. That was
the tradition. No cuttings.

Later when I was IPing myself at Willy, the tradition of a solo
dunking came into being. A cattle tank (about eight feet in diameter
and about two feet deep) was kept behind the flying squadron building.
Each class of students would paint it in class colors. When a student
solo'd, the would be dunked by their classmates. No cuttings there
either. Of course, there weren't any ties nor shirt tails on a K-2B
flying suit.

When students progressed to the T-38 and began wearing a G-suit, there
was the ripping off of the "Gooney Bird survival kit"--the pocket on
the left inside thigh of the flying suit which carried the orange hook
blade knife used to cut parachute lanyards on ejection. The G-suit had
a knife pocket and covered the one on the flying suit leg making it
extraneous. Wise pilots always removed the pocket themselves whenever
they got a new flying suit.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

AFROTC, 1976, soloed in the AF Pre-UPI private pilot's training
course. Shirt tail got cut off.


Just a thought as to origins:

there is a fairly old phrase that I know was in use in the 1920's and
the phrase was" "shirtailed kid". Meaning young, wet behind the ears
etc.

So perhaps losing the shirtail was a way of saying you've graduated
from "kid" to "adult".


--- Gregg
"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558

"Wally Samuelson" wrote in message Does anyone have a clue where the
tradition of cutting off the shirt tail of
a newly soloed student began? I believe it has its roots in the military
in
WW1.

In WWII, we wore our goggles around our neck until we soloed, after that we
could wear them on out helmets in the proper position. It was also the
tradition to throw the soloist in the nearest body of water, either thepool,
lake ,gulf or ocean!

Ed Rasimus wrote:
Solo traditions have varied over time. I've heard of the shirt-tail
clipping, but never seen it done. Clearly the tie cutting is from a
generation long gone, since you can go for a long time without seeing
a tie on a soloing student pilot these days.


If they were waiting for me to wear a tie, I'd never have soloed. As it was, I
was told I wouldn't solo until I wore a nice (read "expensive") shirt. I
managed to solo in spite of wearing a colored t-shirt that day. My shirt tail
was cut off and after a few days reappeared on the wall of the pilot's lounge.

It now sported a picture of a biplane with an upside down scuba diver sticking
out of the cockpit with the words: "I'd Rather Be Diving" on it. I've got it
around the house here somewhere. One of these years I'll get around to framing
it and hanging it in my office.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

Clearly the tie cutting is from a
generation long gone, since you can go for a long time without seeing
a tie on a soloing student pilot these days.

Ed, I suspect he was talking about the military. My tie was amputated
when I soloed at Pensacola in 1950.

When I soloed a J-3 a few years earlier, it was at a small airport, I
was the only student, and there was no ceremony of any sort.

vince norris

there is a fairly old phrase that I know was in use in the 1920's and
the phrase was" "shirtailed kid". Meaning young, wet behind the ears
etc.

Because he didn't wear it tucked in. Sign of a farm boy.

Or: "with his shirttail hanging out...."

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

In message , vincent p.
norris writes
Clearly the tie cutting is from a
generation long gone, since you can go for a long time without seeing
a tie on a soloing student pilot these days.

Ed, I suspect he was talking about the military. My tie was amputated
when I soloed at Pensacola in 1950.

When I soloed a J-3 a few years earlier, it was at a small airport, I
was the only student, and there was no ceremony of any sort.

No, it was at a civilian flying club in Southend, UK.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

"Wally Samuelson" wrote in message
t...
Does anyone have a clue where the tradition of cutting off the shirt tail
of
a newly soloed student began? I believe it has its roots in the military
in
WW1.

While we are on the subject of tails, I recall that newly graduated 2nd
Lts
were called shave tails. Any suggestions on where this term originated?


This was related to me by my dad, a "ground-pounder" in the late 60's.

Shave-Tail refered to someone who was prior-enlisted and eventually recieved
a commision. Enlisted folks wore dress shirts without epaulets, officers
with (had to have someplace to attach the brass). The shirt-tail was cut
off, and the fabric used to create epaulets so an "E" transitioning to an
"O" didn't have to buy a whole new set of shirts.

Of course, in the current Air Force, all blue shirts have epaulets. Senior
NCO's have the option of wearing standard "stripes", or shoulder boards with
their rank.

MSgt (sel) Peter Vierps
116 AMXS