First Glider

Thanks for all of the advise. I may have to get a
glider in between 30 and 35 ld. I am concerned about
getting in deeper than I should and not having fun.
It is possible that I should get a club class glider
due to my hang gliding experience (tighter turn radius?).
A PW5 or Russia may be an answer. I will be spending
sometime dual in a Lark. Two questions: What happened
to Russia Sailplanes? Were there any other gliders
that compare to the PW5 and the AC5?

Thank you again for your help.

Jeff

Jeff Runciman wrote:
Thanks for all of the advise. I may have to get a
glider in between 30 and 35 ld. I am concerned about
getting in deeper than I should and not having fun.
It is possible that I should get a club class glider
due to my hang gliding experience (tighter turn radius?).
A PW5 or Russia may be an answer. I will be spending
sometime dual in a Lark. Two questions: What happened
to Russia Sailplanes? Were there any other gliders
that compare to the PW5 and the AC5?

The USA distributor for Russia sailplanes seems to have been
"fired." And a note he wrote online said it looked like
the manuf. wasn't going to support as much anymore anyway.

I really liked the idea of light gliders, so I'm sorry to see
the USA Russia pipeline and distributor dry up, if this is
in fact what has happened (but hey, the website is gone).

I'll tell ya, however, that I outgrew flying non-retract
pretty quick. You might be better off buying a retract and
just getting a warning system (if spoilers are opened
before gear is down, the horn buzzes).

You might also look at the Sparrowhawk:

http://www.windward-performance.com/
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Were there any other gliders
that compare to the PW5 and the AC5?

About the same price
Junior - Stronger and better performance
Astir/grob 102 - large cockpit, retract better performance.
ASW15 good handling, retract, getting a bit old now.
Libelle lovely good performance, good handling - if you are small enough to fit
in the cockpit.
Avoid wood. They are lovely to fly but you have to spend so much time and money
keeping them in good condition they are not worth it.
I would go for a 15m glider as they seem to offer the best performance/cost
ratio. Flaps are an unnecesary complication and expense

Several ex hang glider pilots I know make excellent glider pilots. In fact one
has just qualified for the british team in the next world championships! Get
something that you enjoy flying an constantly keep striving to extend your
experiences and skills.

OscarCVox wrote:
Were there any other gliders
that compare to the PW5 and the AC5?

std Cirrus, you still can find the manufacturer...
It's a bit tricky to fly it at the beginning (all flying tail) but
after 2-3 landings you will like it.

/Janos

Janos Bauer wrote:
OscarCVox wrote:

Were there any other gliders
that compare to the PW5 and the AC5?


std Cirrus, you still can find the manufacturer...
It's a bit tricky to fly it at the beginning (all flying tail) but
after 2-3 landings you will like it.

Suggesting the Std Cirrus "compares" to the PW5 and the AC5 (probably
meant the AC4 - AC5 is a motorglider) is a big stretch. I've flown all
three, owned the Cirrus, and the "bit tricky" part extends well past the
first 2-3 landinds! The other two are easier fly, and I would be safer
for the "low time" pilot. Even then, there are noticeable differences
between a PW5 and an AC4, such as landing speed.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Have a look at the Sparrowhawk and club class ships.
"Jeff Runciman" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all of the advise. I may have to get a
glider in between 30 and 35 ld. I am concerned about
getting in deeper than I should and not having fun.
It is possible that I should get a club class glider
due to my hang gliding experience (tighter turn radius?).
A PW5 or Russia may be an answer. I will be spending
sometime dual in a Lark. Two questions: What happened
to Russia Sailplanes? Were there any other gliders
that compare to the PW5 and the AC5?

Thank you again for your help.

Jeff

OscarCVox wrote:
Were there any other gliders
that compare to the PW5 and the AC5?

Take a look at the Alisport Silent 2
It offers good performance similar to or better than a PW5
or Russia and is available new. I own the original club version
and am very pleased with it's performance. My ship climbs as well
or better than any of the 15 meter glass birds and I stay up on
weak lift days very easily.

There are more considerations than just L/D when it comes to
buying your first ship. The wings are lighter and it assembles easily,
and with the shorter wings fits in the hanger nicely.

I preferred buying new fiberglass over a 20+ year old ship.
most (all) of the used ones I looked at had crazing and cracks in the
gel coat, and paying for a refinish would have made the costs too
high.

I'm not selling them, I am just a satisfied owner. I don't fly competition
but I can fly my Silent cross country very easily knowing it will land in
a smaller field and at a slower speed than some of the higher performance
racing sailplanes.

Willie
Silent 39 - (EK)

Jeff Runciman wrote in message ...
Thanks for all of the advise. I may have to get a
glider in between 30 and 35 ld. I am concerned about
getting in deeper than I should and not having fun.
It is possible that I should get a club class glider
due to my hang gliding experience (tighter turn radius?).
A PW5 or Russia may be an answer. I will be spending
sometime dual in a Lark. Two questions: What happened
to Russia Sailplanes? Were there any other gliders
that compare to the PW5 and the AC5?

Thank you again for your help.

Jeff



Jeff,

The Russia is an outstanding first glider! I know, I have one. I
recently got it and have put 22 hours on it in 45 days.

Mine is the second Russia at the club and after watching the easy
assembly, ground handling and loads of airtime the other guy was
getting with his it made my decision easy!

In reference to performance and handling...It climbs almost as well as
the PW and runs better in between thermals. Taped up with the root
cuffs and the gear put away it gets 35 to 1. It has really nice
handling, light and nimble without being twitchy.

Lots of room, I am 6'2" with room to spare. Super easy to rig and
ground handle. Automatic hookups on everything, try finding that on
30 year old glass. Did I mention the light weight? Mines 310 pounds,
making it easy to deal with on the ground and you really feel the air
your flying in. As an ex hang glider pilot, I really like that.

In reference to the distributer/importer issue....That is currently
being worked on and should be back in place by late 04 or early 05.

I believe there are around 60 in the US and I have never met an owner
who wasn't pleased with their decision. There is a Yahoo group
dedicated to the design and if you do a little research you will find
happy owners with few issues and lots of smiles and airtime.

Gus
AC4-CK
Houston, TX.
281 705-9701

Thanks for all of the advise. I may have to get a
glider in between 30 and 35 ld. I am concerned about
getting in deeper than I should and not having fun.
It is possible that I should get a club class glider
due to my hang gliding experience (tighter turn radius?).

A dissenting view: There is no reason except money that one should buy
an ancient club-class glider or a low-performance PW5 type glider as a
"first glider."

Sailplanes are very different from hang-gliders or paragliders in this
respect. In hang gliding or paragliding, high performance gliders are
much harder to fly and much more dangerous than older or "club-class"
gliders, and inappropriate for beginners. In sailplanes, the latest
standard or 15 meter gliders (ASW 27/28, Discus 2/Ventus 2) are easier
to fly and much safer (safety cockpit, more benign stall/spin,
automatic hookups, better control on takeoff, better spoilers and
flaps on landing) than older gliders typically bought by beginners.
They also happen to have more performance. They also happen to cost a
LOT more.

In buying a "club-class" glider (Std. Cirrus, etc.) you are giving up
flying characteristics, safety, convenience, and adding the task of
maintaining an antique. There is no flying or safety advantage. The
only reason to do it is that they are a lot cheaper.

"World class" gliders (PW5, Russia) have no safety or ease of flight
advantages either. They offer a different spot on the
price/newness/performance curve, that's all.

Rich beginners should feel no compunction in buying the latest
standard or 15 meter glider. We end up with more experienced pilots in
new gliders only because what we "can afford" seems to change with
time as the addiction level of this sport builds up.

John Cochrane BB

"John Cochrane" wrote in message
m...
Thanks for all of the advise. I may have to get a
glider in between 30 and 35 ld. I am concerned about
getting in deeper than I should and not having fun.
It is possible that I should get a club class glider
due to my hang gliding experience (tighter turn radius?).

A dissenting view: There is no reason except money that one should buy
an ancient club-class glider or a low-performance PW5 type glider as a
"first glider."

Sailplanes are very different from hang-gliders or paragliders in this
respect. In hang gliding or paragliding, high performance gliders are
much harder to fly and much more dangerous than older or "club-class"
gliders, and inappropriate for beginners. In sailplanes, the latest
standard or 15 meter gliders (ASW 27/28, Discus 2/Ventus 2) are easier
to fly and much safer (safety cockpit, more benign stall/spin,
automatic hookups, better control on takeoff, better spoilers and
flaps on landing) than older gliders typically bought by beginners.
They also happen to have more performance. They also happen to cost a
LOT more.

In buying a "club-class" glider (Std. Cirrus, etc.) you are giving up
flying characteristics, safety, convenience, and adding the task of
maintaining an antique. There is no flying or safety advantage. The
only reason to do it is that they are a lot cheaper.

"World class" gliders (PW5, Russia) have no safety or ease of flight
advantages either. They offer a different spot on the
price/newness/performance curve, that's all.

Rich beginners should feel no compunction in buying the latest
standard or 15 meter glider. We end up with more experienced pilots in
new gliders only because what we "can afford" seems to change with
time as the addiction level of this sport builds up.

John Cochrane BB

Let me add an enthusiastic second to John excellent post above. Handling
qualities and performance are not inversely related. Bad gliders handle and
perform badly. Good gliders handle and perform well. Buy the best you can
afford.

I would differ a tiny bit on John's comment on "antique gliders". My 24
year old Nimbus 2C would probably qualify as an antique in John's view but
it has been very well supported by Shempp Hirth. Those parts I have needed
have always been in stock.

Glass is glass. Maintenance on older glass is about the same as with newer
ships. The metal parts can be fabricated if the factory doesn't supply
them. In some cases, the older resins and gel coat are superior to that
found on the newest ships. Take a look at a 40 year old Libelle and then
look at the shrinkage over the spar on a 2 year old ASW 27.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels