Cessna Anticipates AvGas Demise

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

I'm sure you can, but I've often flown singles in situations where
that wasn't anything like enough.

What is it that isn't enough? A backup battery? An essential buss
being powered by the backup battery? What situation?

Your comment was not enough for me to telepathically link to the
meaning, this time. g

It wasn't telepathic.

An hour wasn't enough. I've done quite a few ten hour plus flights away
from anywhere to land in singles. Haveing to have two fuel sources (diesel
and electricity) is not what you want.

Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

An hour wasn't enough. I've done quite a few ten hour plus flights away
from anywhere to land in singles. Haveing to have two fuel sources (diesel
and electricity) is not what you want.

Good grief, 10 hours away from somewhere to land in a single? Where were
all these flights; over the ocean?

I suppose if I was going to take a single over the ocean for a ferry flight,
I'd want to rig in a deep discharge battery, with enough capacity to fly me
onward, feet wet to feet dry, at least.

I suppose the makers of electricity dependant engines could also add a
permanent magnet generator, for backup purposes. That would not have to be
very big, and would be a big comfort, I suppose.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in
news

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

An hour wasn't enough. I've done quite a few ten hour plus flights
away from anywhere to land in singles. Haveing to have two fuel
sources (diesel and electricity) is not what you want.

Good grief, 10 hours away from somewhere to land in a single? Where
were all these flights; over the ocean?


Mostly.


I suppose if I was going to take a single over the ocean for a ferry
flight, I'd want to rig in a deep discharge battery, with enough
capacity to fly me onward, feet wet to feet dry, at least.



I suppose the makers of electricity dependant engines could also add a
permanent magnet generator, for backup purposes. That would not have
to be very big, and would be a big comfort, I suppose.



Well, even with a large battery I still wouldn't be happy.


http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...?date=10111983
&reg=N748LL&airline=Air+Illinois

The report at the bottom of this is not quite correct. The failure of
one generator due to the engine failure caused a bump in the electrics
which knocked off the second generator. There;s no way the crew would
have de-enrgised a genny on an already dead engine.
Anyhow, the RCCB on the opposite side decided to give up the ghost and
at that time there was now way of resetting it from the flight deck
(they were all modified after this accident with the lamest rube
goldberg device you have ever seen)
The whole story of this accident is just so scary it's beyond belief.
The crew were trying to save batt power by turning off as many
unnecesary items as possible, including the cabin lights. When they did
that, the pax started agitating, so they put them on again and off agian
several times before impact.
Bottom line on this accident is that British Aerospace considered it
impossible to lose both generators due to a single electrical event.

They was wrooong.

To this day they conitinue to say "theh crew did this and the crew did
that" but they still modified the airplane.

And they wewren;t all that far from somewhere to land.

I'm not a wimp about that sort of thing. I fly single ignition airplanes
and airplanes with dry rickers you gotta grease every four hours or so.
But this engine goes into airplanes that were designed to be operated as
fairly serious cross country and instrument airplanes. If you put one of
these into a Cherokee or whatever I wouldn't have the same confidence in
the donkey as I would with a Lycoming.If you're going to fly one around
the patch on a sunday afternoon, that's one thing. If you're going to
fly instruments or at night or over water or rough terrain or in any
situation where a good visible landing spot is far away you might as
well be flying across a sea, Depend on a battery? I don't think so.

Bertie

In the short-term, my Cessna 172E has an AutoGas STC and runs just fine
on the stuff. In the long term, I will turn into a dinosaur, fail my
medical, be unable to afford a $100k LSA, and just rock in my chair all day.

;^)

Al
1964 Skyhawk

Bertie

Have you looked at my "Trims" psoting. No comments under it????

Big John
************************************************** ******************


On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 16:40:30 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

Still, no limp home capabiity? I'm not averse to flying something
that you need to consider a potential glider at any moment (anteeks)
but this seems to me to be just stupid.

I think you are fixating on the Diamond twin application of the
Thielert, and not other applications.


Nope, a singel engine installation would be even worse in my view.

I seem to recall reading that one Thielert single engine plane had a
backup battery and essential buss that was capable of running it for
about an hour. I don't remember which one that was.


I'm sure you can, but I've often flown singles in situations where that
wasn't anything like enough.


I believe the twin engine that crashed was made so one engine's
battery could back-up the other side. The problem was that he took
off with both batteries crapped out. When you lose a battery in the
air, you are supposed to land, and you sure should not be taking off.

I understand that. I understand it completely. I stil think it's poor
design.

Bertie

Big John wrote in
:

Bertie

Have you looked at my "Trims" psoting. No comments under it????



I haven't seen it, I don't think . I delete all the posts after I read them
and some get swept away. I'll have a lok on one of my other newsreaders

Bertie

Big John wrote in
:

John

NoI don't see it anywhere. It might not have made it on my server.



Bertie

Bertie

I'll post again under heading "Wings Over Houston". It covers my
conversation at the Wings Over Houston Air Show this week end and the
conversation on group about trim plus a littlre other.

Big John

************************************************** **************8
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 00:59:42 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

Big John wrote in
:

John

NoI don't see it anywhere. It might not have made it on my server.



Bertie

OH no you won't need to do that. There are and will be many more LSA for
much less than $100k. Talk to the guys in our group and they will tell you.

Have a good day and stay out of the trees!
See ya on Sport Aircraft group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/






"Al" wrote in message
...
In the short-term, my Cessna 172E has an AutoGas STC and runs just fine on
the stuff. In the long term, I will turn into a dinosaur, fail my
medical, be unable to afford a $100k LSA, and just rock in my chair all
day.

;^)

Al
1964 Skyhawk