Mooney M20E: pre-1969 vs 1969+

I understand that in 1969, Mooney implemented a number of changes in
the M20C / M20E models. A friend and I might start shopping for one
of these planes in a few months, and I'm trying to figure out what's
important and what isn't.

1. Does the larger rudder in the 1969+ models have a positive impact
on crosswind performance? How about forward slip performance?

2. The top of the green arc was increased from 150 MIAS to 175 MIAS
for 1969+ models. Aside from the rudder, are there any airframe
changes that might explain this change? Is the '69+ plane stronger?

3. Although I've never used it, I like the idea of the "johnson bar"
manual gear system. These are unavailable in 1969+ models, and I'm
slightly concerned about the increased complexity and maintenance
costs that might be associated with the electric system. Is this a
valid concern?

4. Aside from the improved panel layout, are there any other
noteworthy differences between various M20E model years?

Thanks!

http://www.mooneypilots.com/m20E.html

maybe you've already seen this article.

Jim

"Jeff Meininger" wrote in message
...

I understand that in 1969, Mooney implemented a number of changes in
the M20C / M20E models. A friend and I might start shopping for one
of these planes in a few months, and I'm trying to figure out what's
important and what isn't.

1. Does the larger rudder in the 1969+ models have a positive impact
on crosswind performance? How about forward slip performance?

2. The top of the green arc was increased from 150 MIAS to 175 MIAS
for 1969+ models. Aside from the rudder, are there any airframe
changes that might explain this change? Is the '69+ plane stronger?

3. Although I've never used it, I like the idea of the "johnson bar"
manual gear system. These are unavailable in 1969+ models, and I'm
slightly concerned about the increased complexity and maintenance
costs that might be associated with the electric system. Is this a
valid concern?

4. Aside from the improved panel layout, are there any other
noteworthy differences between various M20E model years?

Thanks!











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or this model chronology
http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm

Jim

"Jeff Meininger" wrote in message
...

I understand that in 1969, Mooney implemented a number of changes in
the M20C / M20E models. A friend and I might start shopping for one
of these planes in a few months, and I'm trying to figure out what's
important and what isn't.

1. Does the larger rudder in the 1969+ models have a positive impact
on crosswind performance? How about forward slip performance?

2. The top of the green arc was increased from 150 MIAS to 175 MIAS
for 1969+ models. Aside from the rudder, are there any airframe
changes that might explain this change? Is the '69+ plane stronger?

3. Although I've never used it, I like the idea of the "johnson bar"
manual gear system. These are unavailable in 1969+ models, and I'm
slightly concerned about the increased complexity and maintenance
costs that might be associated with the electric system. Is this a
valid concern?

4. Aside from the improved panel layout, are there any other
noteworthy differences between various M20E model years?

Thanks!











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(Jeff Meininger) wrote in message ...

Most of the changes were to reduce manufacturing cost.

I understand that in 1969, Mooney implemented a number of changes in
the M20C / M20E models. A friend and I might start shopping for one
of these planes in a few months, and I'm trying to figure out what's
important and what isn't.

1. Does the larger rudder in the 1969+ models have a positive impact
on crosswind performance? How about forward slip performance?

I don't know, but my '65C slips pretty well and lands in 20+ knot
crosswinds. In general Mooneys are not great forward slippers due to
the small rudder, but if you can learn to manage your energy state
it's not a big deal. Mine has manual speedbrakes, so I can be pretty
lazy.

2. The top of the green arc was increased from 150 MIAS to 175 MIAS
for 1969+ models. Aside from the rudder, are there any airframe
changes that might explain this change? Is the '69+ plane stronger?

No it was a paperwork change, info from Bill Wheat retired Mooney test
pilot

3. Although I've never used it, I like the idea of the "johnson bar"
manual gear system. These are unavailable in 1969+ models, and I'm
slightly concerned about the increased complexity and maintenance
costs that might be associated with the electric system. Is this a
valid concern?

Mooney electric gear is relatively low maintenance. It's a close
second best to the superior manual gear system :-).

4. Aside from the improved panel layout, are there any other
noteworthy differences between various M20E model years?

Fixed cowl flaps (although the movable ones on my '65 are worth maybe
2 kias)
Throttle quadrant instead of push-pull knobs (you may prefer one or
the other)
exposed rivets on bottom of wing
non-flush mounted inspection panels on bottom of wing
fixed stop vs retractable step
friction baggage door holder vs. overcenter
shimmy dampener on nosewheel (which I understand is often removed)
Perhaps better night lighting

Note that a SWTA or LASAR 6-pack side flight instrument panel is
available at a relatively low cost for the earlier "shotgun" panels

Thanks!

I have a very cherry '65C/J clone that I plan to list in a few months
as I am moving "up" :-( to a 6-seat Piper mini-van. E-mail me
privately for details.

You will be very happy with a Mooney. Pre or post '69 is not much
different. A friend of mine has a '74C that is probably the best in
the country.

Bob Miller
arnospamjrmillerATsbcnospamglobal.net

In article ,
"Jim Burns" writes:

http://www.mooneypilots.com/m20E.html

maybe you've already seen this article.

[and from another reply...]

or this model chronology
http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm

Yeah, those MAPA "Flight Test Reports" and the chronology are
excellent resources for hard-to-find information. I came across
them before posting. It's actually those documents that prompted
my questions - for example, I wouldn't have known about the
different rudders if the M20E and M20F reports didn't have graphic
insets showing them.

In fact, I have one more question to add to my original list.

The M20F report has another graphic inset that states, "N353JT had
the 'twisted' wing seen on '67 F and G models. It did nothing for
the airplane's stall characteristics and was dropped in '68."

I can interpret this to mean two different things. I suppose it
doesn't really matter, as none of the reports indicate one model
having significantly different stall characteristics than another,
but I like to sweat the small stuff. For example, if I google
search for twisted-wing mooney, all I can find is a joke about
fueling them with a mason jar. I'm just left scratching my head
as to the differences between the wing styles.

Wow... that's excellent information. Thanks very much for your
reply.

I have one more question for you. Do you know of any practical
differences in the pre-'68 and '68+ F/G wing? The MAPA M20F
report says that the change was due to stall characteristics,
but this tidbit is provided right underneath a paragraph that
praises the pre-1968 plane's stall. Is one wing design faster,
better, or "safer" than the other? I'm guessing it's a non-
issue, but I sure do enjoy this kind of trivia.

Jeff Meininger wrote:

The M20F report has another graphic inset that states, "N353JT had
the 'twisted' wing seen on '67 F and G models. It did nothing for
the airplane's stall characteristics and was dropped in '68."

I can interpret this to mean two different things. I suppose it
doesn't really matter, as none of the reports indicate one model
having significantly different stall characteristics than another,
but I like to sweat the small stuff. For example, if I google
search for twisted-wing mooney, all I can find is a joke about
fueling them with a mason jar. I'm just left scratching my head
as to the differences between the wing styles.

Don't know the facts on the different wings, but try googling for "wing
washout". It sounds like that's what thry're talking about.