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#111
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Jim Watt wrote in
: [snip] Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA is a socialist party rather like the Ba'ath party. Suggestive of certain possibilities that is. Like oh say delivering a ton or so of high speed steel and concrete to Gerry Adams' front sitting room some fine evening. IBM __________________________________________________ ____________________ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com The Worlds Uncensored News Source |
#112
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"Paul J. Adam" wrote:
:In message , Fred J. McCall writes :"Paul J. Adam" wrote: ::Frantic evasion by Fred noted with amusement. : :Paul, you can expect this every time your name and the IRA appear :together. I know it's one of the topics where your brain shuts down :and your 'cream' glands fire up. : :Fred, you're the one showing signs Nope, because I'm going to once again decline to be dragged down into yet another pointless discussion with you of the whichness of the why on this issue. I realize that my not caring to play your games is one of the things that foams your mouth up, but I consider that a personal problem on your part and not something I'm particularly concerned about. :The IRA, like the Palestinians, is pretty much a REGIONAL :problem (and yes, the Palestinians have operated in other countries, :too). : :If "regional" includes operations across Europe, in North Africa and in :both Americas, then yes. 'Operations'? Sorry, but acquisition of funds and material and hiring out as trainers are not 'operations'. :Which terrorist organisations _don't_ fit this model of "regional"? Al Qaeda, for one. :Being 'international' requires actually having global reach (out of :region) routinely, not just the one-off op or so. : :Oh, so now we're accepting that PIRA _do_ have "international reach", :just not _enough_ of it to meet your definition? Paul, anyone who can afford an airplane ticket potentially has 'global reach' for one-off ops. That hardly makes them a global organization. :This is why I don't generally :bother to talk about this issue with you, Paul. Reason left when this :topic comes up in your vicinity. : :Yep, Well, pleased to see you're at least finally admitting that reason indeed deserts you on this issue. Recognizing you have the problem is the first step toward doing something about it. :but I'm not the one ignoring the facts and making up definitions on :the fly. No, you're just the one foaming and blotting, as usual, while substituting snide remarks for logic. Again, not interested in that game. -- "I was lucky in the order. But I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folks." -- William Munny, "Unforgiven" |
#113
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:20:28 -0700, "TinCanMan"
wrote: internet nonsense omitted television rant snipped I said it was entertainment and it is, even the news and proported documentaries. FWIW, I'm not a hermit living in a cave. I had TV till 10 years ago and decided it was entertainment, poor entertainment at that. I'm also aware those who choose to do so may obtain inexpensive satellite service providing 500+ channels of programming, including numerous Canadian, Mexican and other Latin American stations. As I keep telling you that is American television. Thats not what I am talking about. I've seen whats on US cable. You have not seen whats available here. spot the difference. I don't find it surprising you might receive Iraqi programming as it is no farther from Seville-Baghdad than it is Miami-Seattle and I can drive there without being subject to the whims of half dozen or so tinpot dictators who's ideas of justice include the traumatic removal of body parts for minor indiscretions and the stoning of women for adultry. Have you any evidence that that was happening in Iraq? And you say you're offended we execute murderers. How many wrongs make something right? Uropeeans appear quite happy to do business with these folks without a wimper And the US is very happy to take oil from Saudi and sell them all sorts of hardware. Indeed Saddam was good business at one time and who was shipping arms to Iraq? and yet question U.S. justice and motivation. How cheesy. We cannot even question things then? No wonder Congress rejected the IKK. Yes, because it would act as a control on your excesses. But the bottom line is that British citizens expect their government to attempt to ensure that when accused of a crime by a foreign government that they either receive a fair trial abroad, or they are repatriated to face the British Justice system. There is not the slightest evidence that people kidnapped and taken to an offshore US base in Cuba, held in dubious conditions etc are going to see justice. There is no point in a 'war on terrosm' when your leaders act in exactly the same way as terrorists themselves. -- Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com |
#114
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On 29 Jul 2003 04:58:21 GMT, IBM wrote:
Jim Watt wrote in : On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:42:43 -0500, "Jim" wrote: On the contary, I've kept to facts rather than decending into peronal abuse - apart from your president who is an expletive deleted Considserbly better then you. He is certainl;y better at telling lies, killing innocent people taking cocaine and getting elected in Florida. Certainly more talented than Algore and his crew. Can we interest you in Tony Blair ? He may not be able to kick a ball like Bechkam but he can put more spin on things. -- Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com |
#115
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On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 01:05:05 +0200, Jim Watt wrote:
The A-team are still going strong on RTL. there are a lot of German channels free-to-air. Just wish I could understand more of the Arabic channels to know what they really think. Once I began learning German, I liked to watch a lot of shows on German TV. One of the favorite channels was RTL because they showed a lot of the more recent shows and such. I even today miss listening to German radio stations not just for the music, but the news and such every hour. Dave -- You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us! US Army Signal Corps!! www.geocities.com/davidcasey98 |
#116
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#118
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Henrietta K Thomas wrote in message . ..
(newsgroups trimmed way down) On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:44:48 GMT, Fred J. McCall wrote, in us.military.army: "Paul J. Adam" wrote: :What would _you_ consider a "fair trial", Fred, and would your opinion :change if you were the defendant? Paul, nobody wants a 'fair trial' when they're the defendant. They just want to get off. Sometimes 'getting off' IS a fair trial. :-) This lot will get fairer trials than they've got coming. Why is it none of your lot are willing to wait for the bad outcomes you keep shrilling about to occur before tearing your hair out and wailing to the skies? Because, by that time, it may be too late. Under international law, every accused person is entitled to be treated humanely, to be properly advised of any charges against them, to be properly advised of their right to defend themselves. Holding people at Guantanamo doesn't excuse the US from obeying international law. We get away with it only because we're the most powerful nation on earth and no one dares to challenge us. Hell, wait until the first trial happens and someone gets sentenced. Then you MIGHT have something to complain about. However, I'd bet you won't. The military, unlike a civilian court, is going to be pretty scrupulous about things before they'll sentence someone to death. My understanding is that there will be no appeals, or at best, limited appeals. So if, by chance, something -does- go wrong, all avenues of redress will be closed. I don't call that a 'fair' anything. You might want to look at just when the last time was that a military court handed down a death penalty. Irrelevant to the question at hand. Regardless of the outcome, all trials must be fair if justice is to be served. It would have been better, IMO, if we had asked the UN to set up an international tribunal to deal with the situation. But we did not, so we are stuck with the decision made by our government to do everything in secret behind closed doors. No offense intended to the US military justice system, but I think it was a bad call. Actually the trick is to use the threat of the kangaroo courts to force guilty pleas from Today' washington post LACKAWANNA, N.Y. -- Even now, after the arrests and the anger and the world media spotlight, the mystery for neighbors in this old steel town remains this: Why would six of their young men so readily agree to plead guilty to terror charges, accepting long prison terms far from home?...... But defense attorneys say the answer is straightforward: The federal government implicitly threatened to toss the defendants into a secret military prison without trial, where they could languish indefinitely without access to courts or lawyers.That prospect terrified the men. They accepted prison terms of 61/2 to 9 years. "We had to worry about the defendants being whisked out of the courtroom and declared enemy combatants if the case started going well for us," said attorney Patrick J. Brown, who defended one of the accused. "So we just ran up the white flag and folded. Most of us wish we'd never been associated with this case."..... Future defendants in terror cases could face the same choice: Plead guilty or face the possibility of indefinite imprisonment or even the death penalty. That troubles defense attorneys and some legal scholars, not least because prosecutors never offered evidence that the Lackawanna defendants intended to commit an act of terrorism..... "The defendants believed that if they didn't plead guilty, they'd end up in a black hole forever," said Neal R. Sonnett, chairman of the American Bar Association's Task Force on Treatment of Enemy Combatants. "There's little difference between beating someone over the head and making a threat like that." Several of Buffalo's better-known defense attorneys signed on to represent the Lackawanna Six. The lawyers didn't view their clients as innocent but planned to poke enough holes in the prosecution case to draw a better deal. They found that allegations that their clients spent large sums of money arose from a casino credit card jointly held by an extended family. And there was no evidence that the men had spoken of or planned an attack."We'd been able to convince the press and the public that there wasn't all that much evidence," said John J. Molloy, who represented al-Bakri. "We had enough to make the government work for its pound of flesh." But they did not reckon on the new legal world. The defense lawyers asked to question .....al-Dosari, in hopes of proving their clients had been duped into traveling to Afghanistan. .....Al-Dosari is widely reported to be held at the U.S. military base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But the Justice Department does not acknowledge that. "Juma?" U.S. Attorney Battle asked last week. "I don't know anyone named Juma." Battle said defense lawyers came to realize two facts of life. Attorney General John D. Ashcroft would not hesitate to veto any deals. And the Defense Department stood ready to ask Bush to designate the defendants as enemy combatants..... comment This is just another example of how the adminstration is willing to throw away hundreds of years of development of law and civilization. Winning will be meaningless if we push the world back into barbarism. Vince |
#119
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"David Evans" wrote in message ... William Black wrote: "David Evans" wrote in message .. . William Black wrote: Neither have I ever been asked to swear allegiance, unlike soldiers... I bet you stay seated when you toast Her too. Nope. I stand, like everybody else with reasonable manners. To suggest otherwise is a grave insult. As far as I know, naval officers aboard a ship toast the Queen seated. Am I wrong? On a ship yes, and I think there's an army unit of some sort that doesn't stand at any time, but I'm not sure about that, a vague memory of an old story about some king or other saying something like 'No need gentlemen, you loyalty is not in doubt'. -- William Black ------------------ On time, on budget, or works; Pick any two from three |
#120
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"William Black" wrote in message ... As far as I know, naval officers aboard a ship toast the Queen seated. Am I wrong? On a ship yes, and I think there's an army unit of some sort that doesn't stand at any time, but I'm not sure about that, a vague memory of an old story about some king or other saying something like 'No need gentlemen, you loyalty is not in doubt'. http://www.readyayeready.com/traditi...om-customs.htm About half way down covers the Loyal Toast (article from mid-1950s) A RN ref from 1934 says to sit when drinking the Loyal Toast is not permitted when the National Anthem is played, following a ruling given by the late Marquis of Milford Haven on June 4th, 1914, when he was First Sea Lord. Men toasted the Sovereign at the Grog Tub drinking their tot as soon as it was issued, the motto "The King, God Bless Him" being written on the Grog Tub. When quinine was issued in the Army or Navy the senior officer would toast the Sovereign with his draught, thus ensuring that all officers and men following in line took their medicine out of loyalty if not obedience. Regards, Barry |
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