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World Class: Recent Great News



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 10th 04, 12:47 AM
Mark James Boyd
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I for one am grateful for the World Class idea.
I'm glad IGC didn't kill it. It's nice to have
a very "entry level" competition class/records.

I'd like to see a different glider, perhaps the
AC-4 or Sparrowhawk (or variant), maybe as the
next "entry level" World Class glider.

I flew the Russia retract Saturday. I liked it.

In article ,
Charles Yeates wrote:
With Spring and a new season arriving, here are some absolutely GREAT news
for the World Class:

--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA
  #12  
Old March 10th 04, 09:35 AM
Ben Flewett
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I see. In other words.... there were only 65 gliders
in attendance and it was nothing like a normal WGC.


At 13:24 09 March 2004, Charles Yeates wrote:
European women flying the heavy iron and the MEN flying
25 PWees
[)All classes started at different well separated
points and flew

tasks that rarely had common legs

Ben Flewett wrote:
Wasn't there - can't comment.

If the problems didn't happen then perhaps I am wrong.
I just can't see how 40 fully laden Std class ships
can cohabitate with 40 PW5's.

By the way - what comp are you talking about...?
1999
was a WGC year (Bayreuth Germany). Was it a juniors
or something...?

B



At 20:54 08 March 2004, Charles Yeates wrote:

Hmmmmmnn

Ben -- your comments do not match what happened at
the the 1999 Leszno,
PL, competition with mobs of Std, 15m and World Class
ships flying
together. The kinds of problems you forsee never happened.

Ben Flewett wrote:

“Starting with the 2008 events, the World Soaring
Championships
will be held in two major venues, one regrouping the
Open, 18m, and 15m classes, and the second grouping
the Standard, World, and Club classes.”

Outstanding. Have any of the people who dreamt up
that idea ever flown a glider…?











  #13  
Old March 10th 04, 10:05 AM
Owain Walters
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I know what the current requirements are. But again,
the point is being missed. The current requirements
are nothing but an obstacle - no-one wants to fly these
things. So why not change the requirements? Why does
it have to be new?

As for the entry level competition - what is the point
of the US sports class and regional competitions? I
know that in the UK the regional competitions are generally
the first competitions people fly and arguably it is
working well.

Although, I do actually think there is merit to a competition
that provides a starting point for pilots who are starting
out why should it be something as pointless as the
PW5. And why should there be a World Champs if you
only fly them as an entry level competition. As for
the records - whats the point in record flying if you
acknowledge this is only an 'entry level' record?

BTW - poeple should look at glider ads a bit more often.
I know of at least one LS4 for $29.5k and a Discus
A for $50k. How much is a fully instrumented, trailered
PW5?







  #14  
Old March 10th 04, 10:06 AM
Ben Flewett
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All valid points but....

You get what you pay for and nobody wants to buy a
PW5 because they are overpriced rubbish. That is why
the World Class concept has failed in it's current
format.

I am a great fan of the World Class concept and will
happily sell my D2 and buy a World Class glider. But
I am not spending $20,000 on a glider that goes no
better than the $4000 K6 I owned when I was an 18 year
old student - especially as it would mean I couldn't
fly against a large number of top pilots as I can in
the D2.




At 20:54 09 March 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
I'm not a big fan of a flying sperm cell either, but
you can forget
that Discus or LS4 will ever become a world class.
One of the major
requirement for that class is: can you produce NEW,
laminate, low cost
glider that will be widely accessible to everyone that
wants to fly?
NOT, can you buy a 30 year old LS3 at the similar price
or if you can
buy new Discus for $70,000, making gliding even less
accessible for
regular folk. Now take a wild guess dont you see any
LS4, or Discus in
majority, if not all American clubs? Is it because
Pewee is better? Or
is it because Pewee is cheaper to aquire and operate?
If that wasn't
the requirement Poles would probably propose Jantar.




  #15  
Old March 10th 04, 10:12 AM
Ben Flewett
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Taking that argument to it's logical conclusion we
should nominate a hang-glider as the new World Class
glider.

The World Class was never supposed to be an entry level
glider - it was supposed to be a glider that anyone
and everyone could and WOULD want to compete in. The
idea was to have a GLIDER we could all compete in -
not a paper dart.

And what is the point of retracting the undercarridge
on a Russia?


At 00:54 10 March 2004, Mark James Boyd wrote:
I for one am grateful for the World Class idea.
I'm glad IGC didn't kill it. It's nice to have
a very 'entry level' competition class/records.

I'd like to see a different glider, perhaps the
AC-4 or Sparrowhawk (or variant), maybe as the
next 'entry level' World Class glider.

I flew the Russia retract Saturday. I liked it.

In article ,
Charles Yeates wrote:
With Spring and a new season arriving, here are some
absolutely GREAT news
for the World Class:

--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA




  #16  
Old March 10th 04, 06:06 PM
Eric Greenwell
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Ben Flewett wrote:

Taking that argument to it's logical conclusion we
should nominate a hang-glider as the new World Class
glider.

The World Class was never supposed to be an entry level
glider - it was supposed to be a glider that anyone
and everyone could and WOULD want to compete in. The
idea was to have a GLIDER we could all compete in -
not a paper dart.


Some revisionist history going on he I was on SSA Board of Directors
when the World Class was proposed, and these NEVER were the goals. NO
ONE, at the time, espoused the idea that everyone, or even a large
minority, would want to fly the World Class Glider.
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

  #17  
Old March 10th 04, 09:11 PM
Going fer it
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Ben - winter getting to you dear Boy......


Of course we could make the World Class the competition that hotshots
want to fly.

...
...
...
...

Make the International winner $100,000 richer and I suspect you wont
have any complaints from top guns wanting to earn a bit of extra coin
:-)

Who gives a toss about what they look like, topguns will then say its
the $100K they will earn that will make them want to compete.

BMW owners will always look down their noses at Hyundai owners........




Ben Flewett wrote in message ...
All valid points but....

You get what you pay for and nobody wants to buy a
PW5 because they are overpriced rubbish. That is why
the World Class concept has failed in it's current
format.

I am a great fan of the World Class concept and will
happily sell my D2 and buy a World Class glider. But
I am not spending $20,000 on a glider that goes no
better than the $4000 K6 I owned when I was an 18 year
old student - especially as it would mean I couldn't
fly against a large number of top pilots as I can in
the D2.




At 20:54 09 March 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
I'm not a big fan of a flying sperm cell either, but
you can forget
that Discus or LS4 will ever become a world class.
One of the major
requirement for that class is: can you produce NEW,
laminate, low cost
glider that will be widely accessible to everyone that
wants to fly?
NOT, can you buy a 30 year old LS3 at the similar price
or if you can
buy new Discus for $70,000, making gliding even less
accessible for
regular folk. Now take a wild guess dont you see any
LS4, or Discus in
majority, if not all American clubs? Is it because
Pewee is better? Or
is it because Pewee is cheaper to aquire and operate?
If that wasn't
the requirement Poles would probably propose Jantar.

  #18  
Old March 11th 04, 12:09 AM
G.Kurek
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Default

So what are the alternatives to replace a Pw-5? NEW of course...
  #19  
Old March 11th 04, 01:32 AM
Larry Pardue
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"Ben Flewett" wrote in message
...
All valid points but....

You get what you pay for and nobody wants to buy a
PW5 because they are overpriced rubbish. That is why
the World Class concept has failed in it's current
format.


I am biased as a PW-5 owner but am at a complete loss to understand why so
much vitriol is hurled at the design. Everyone makes their choices and pays
their money and that is fine. It would just never occur to me to denigrate
all the designs I did not choose and believe me they all have their
drawbacks.

I could say:

I would never buy a motorglider. You pay all that money and get an
unreliable smoky engine where the new prop bearings may seize and that
sounds like a lawnmower and that can't fly with any kind of reasonably low
wingloading. Also you don't deserve any records you set or contests you win
because of the motor advantage.

I wouldn't buy any of those modern, expensive German gliders. They are
finished with junk that is easy to apply and smooth but that disintegrates
in a few years requiring a refinishing that cost as much as a used glider.
This is not to mention the spar shrinkage that may happen in just a year or
so of southwest US heat. Then of course I will have to replace it in 5
years to stay competitive.

I wouldn't buy any cheap Eastern European open class glider. How would you
ever find the help to do that heavy rigging and it is not competitive in any
class except maybe Sports.

I wouldn't buy any 2nd or 3rd generation back 15 meter or standard class
ship. What classes are they competitive in now? Either none or maybe
Sports Class if you are lucky. Yeh, I guess you can fly with your buddies
if that interests you. Hard to get better if you are trying to fly with,
instead of faster, than your buddies.

I could say all that and parts of it would be true. Why would I want to?
I'm not offended when people make other choices, I just enjoy the beauty and
technology of the gliders they purchase.

So there you have it. The 1-26 was and is a successful one-design class, in
the US only. The low performance can be a disadvantage in some areas and it
can not use a compact trailer. The PW-5 has the advantage of more modern
materials and more performance and of being an international class. The big
idea is it is a one-design class, not that it should compete with the LS-4.
A side advantage is that it is inexpensive. What new glider is cheaper?
Not fair to compare to used gliders. It is far from being the prettiest
glider out there and I sure do appreciate the beauty of an ASW-28, but I can
live with that for the advantages it does have. The class hasn't grown as
fast as hoped, but it seems to be doing about as well as Open Class (or
Standard last year) and I don't hear a lot of uproar again that class.

My B1 model has a polyurethane finish that I expect to last for a long long
time. It has automatic hookups. It seems as well built as any recent
German glider I have seen. It does not have any indication of spar
shrinkage, after some hot summers. It is extremely easy to handle on the
ground and to rig and derig. It is and will remain, as long as the class
endures, a cutting edge glider in the World Class and, at least for now,
Sports Class, all without messing with the considerable hassles of water
ballast. This means I don't have to replace it every few years.

I am very happy with the glider and hope everyone else is happy with their
choices.

Larry Pardue 2I

Shaking in my boots about competing against John Byrd on an EQUAL BASIS this
summer.


  #20  
Old March 11th 04, 01:34 AM
Tom Claffey
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Mark,
These light gliders are a good idea, however the whole concept is for
a one design class so that Pilot performance only counts. The
Sparrowhawk and Russia are interesting gliders but are NOT the World
Class glider, the PW5 is. As someone who has flown one at above World
record performance [undeclared] on my one flight in it [and my Wife
achieved 4 World Records next day on a below average, blue Nevada
day]I agree the Piwi is not suitable for the reasons Ben says. He is
also correct in his comments on gaggles in heavy Standard class
gliders verses light gliders.
To get a true one design comp going we need 40:1 + performance, the
LS4 is the obvious choice, built perhaps in eastern Europe or China to
keep costs down.
There are probably 5 times as many ASH25's in the world as PW5's so
the Piwi has proven to be a failure by the lack of buyers, even clubs
who bought them initially have sold them.
Tom Claffey



(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:404e65b0$1@darkstar...
I for one am grateful for the World Class idea.
I'm glad IGC didn't kill it. It's nice to have
a very "entry level" competition class/records.

I'd like to see a different glider, perhaps the
AC-4 or Sparrowhawk (or variant), maybe as the
next "entry level" World Class glider.

I flew the Russia retract Saturday. I liked it.

In article ,
Charles Yeates wrote:
With Spring and a new season arriving, here are some absolutely GREAT news
for the World Class:

 




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