Trainer options for Big, (and fat), guys

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 7:58:40 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 7:11:36 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Ahhhhhh, Marc.

Flight Manual Grob 103.
Page 6, paragraph II.8 Load scheme "TWIN II"
"Maximum load in the front seat . . . . 110 kg (242 lbs)"
"Maximum load in the back seat . . . . 110 kg (242 lbs)"

English is not an easy language. To be more precise, the minimum "maximum" pilot weight permissible under the JAR22 standard is 110 kg. That does not mean that JAR22 gliders are not permitted to have a higher "maximum" pilot weight than 110 kg, what it means is that none of the manufacturers (Genesis 2 is the sole exception, I believe) have chosen to provide over the minimum for the maximum pilot weight. Clear?

Paraphrase of relevant section provided years ago by Bob K.:

: JAR 22.25 Weight Limits
:
: (a) Maximum weight. The maximum weight
: must be established so that it is:
:
: (2) Not less than the weight which
: results from the empty weight of
: the glider, plus a weight of occupant(s)
: and parachute(s) of 110 kg for a
: single seat glider or 180 kg for a
: two seat glider, plus the required
: minimum equipment, plus any expendable
: ballast and for a powered glider
: sufficient fuel for at least half
: an hour of flight at maximum continuous
: power.

Please note "not less"...

That is an interesting piece of writing, BUT
The individual aircraft flight manual is the authority on weight and balance.

I think what you are trying to rationalize is a situation where a pilot weighs more than 242 pounds but when you do the math the aircraft loading is still below the maximum non-lifting load limit, below the maximum all up loading, and the aircraft is within C.G. limits. This is always an interesting discussion.
However, the aircraft flight manual is the authority for each individual aircraft. Perhaps things like the design of the seats and backrests are some limiting factors in the maximum pilot weight of 242 pounds.
You should ask the manufacturer what their opinion is.
You should ask the FAA via the local FSDO office what their opinion is.
Let us know what you find out.

drguya,

You are missing the point.

JAR-22 says that the manufactures must design the aircraft to take AT LEAST a 242 pound pilot.

JAR-22 does not say the manufactures can not design to a heavier pilot. They just don't bother.

Marc is not trying to "rationalize" anything. He is placing the blame on the manufactures, not the JAR.

Todd
3S

The real point is that the maximum weight is what is stated in the aircraft flight manual, no matter what the JAR22 written standards for certification are. I understand that a JAR22 aircraft must be designed to allow a pilot up to 242 pounds (including the chute). But, that in no way says that a JAR22 aircraft is allowed to fly with a pilot weighing more than 242 pounds..

This started out as a discussion about what the options are for a pilot who weighs more than 242 pounds.

Pretty much...not many.

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 1:51:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:

This started out as a discussion about what the options are for a pilot who weighs more than 242 pounds.

Pretty much...not many.

That's for sure.

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 1:51:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
This started out as a discussion about what the options are for a pilot who weighs more than 242 pounds.

As of 2008, 10-15% of USA residents weigh over 240 lbs. (M/F ages 20-70)

https://www.census.gov/compendia/sta...es/12s0209.pdf

4000 hours in gliders and never weighed less than 242 lbs, don't know what that says, never had any problems