Safety pilot "flight time"

When logging safety pilot time, what do you put under the "duration of
flight" column? For example, say I'm flying with a friend who is
wearing a hood. We decided I'll be responsible for the flight before
hand. I can log PIC for the time the other person had the hood on, and
under the "total flight time" column, put the same as the PIC/when he
was wearing the hood?

Someone told me once if the person wore the hood most of the flight,
you could log the "flight time" for the entire flight, because you were
a required crew member. But once he takes it off though, you aren't
required...so I'm thinking it's the same as the PIC time.

Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they are
not actually sole manipulator of the controls.

Be honest, you are only required while the hood is on.



"kevmor" wrote in message
ups.com...
| When logging safety pilot time, what do you put under the
"duration of
| flight" column? For example, say I'm flying with a friend
who is
| wearing a hood. We decided I'll be responsible for the
flight before
| hand. I can log PIC for the time the other person had the
hood on, and
| under the "total flight time" column, put the same as the
PIC/when he
| was wearing the hood?
|
| Someone told me once if the person wore the hood most of
the flight,
| you could log the "flight time" for the entire flight,
because you were
| a required crew member. But once he takes it off though,
you aren't
| required...so I'm thinking it's the same as the PIC time.
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they are
not actually sole manipulator of the controls.

Be honest, you are only required while the hood is on.

You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are either acting as
PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.

Anyway, it's your logbook, you can write anything you want to in it.
It's only when you want to use your logbook as evidence of experience
for a job or rating application that it matters.

Personally, I don't log time I spend as a safety pilot, but you
certainly may, either as

[PIC if you are acting as PIC], or as

[SIC if you're not PIC but a required crewmember since the PIC is using
a view restricting device].

On 01/22/07 05:22, Jim Macklin wrote:
Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they are
not actually sole manipulator of the controls.

What? Can you please show the regulation that stipulates this?
I've never seen it.


Be honest, you are only required while the hood is on.

That depends on the agreement made by the pilots ahead of time. If
they both agree that the safety pilot shall be PIC, then he can log
it that way - for the entire flight. Of course, to do this, the safety
pilot must be qualified to be PIC (if he doesn't have a complex endorsement,
he can't be PIC in a complex airplane for example).

However, if the pilot flying is PIC, the safety pilot is required only
while the pilot flying has a view limiting device on, and should log
SIC only for that time.





"kevmor" wrote in message
ups.com...
| When logging safety pilot time, what do you put under the
"duration of
| flight" column? For example, say I'm flying with a friend
who is
| wearing a hood. We decided I'll be responsible for the
flight before
| hand. I can log PIC for the time the other person had the
hood on, and
| under the "total flight time" column, put the same as the
PIC/when he
| was wearing the hood?
|
| Someone told me once if the person wore the hood most of
the flight,
| you could log the "flight time" for the entire flight,
because you were
| a required crew member. But once he takes it off though,
you aren't
| required...so I'm thinking it's the same as the PIC time.
|





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Jim Macklin wrote:
Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they are
not actually sole manipulator of the controls.


You need to go back and read the rules again. There are
certainly several cases where you can log PIC when not
the sole manipulator of the controls. The safety pilot
who is acting as PIC is one of them.

Dave Butler wrote:
Jim Macklin wrote:
Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they are not
actually sole manipulator of the controls.

Be honest, you are only required while the hood is on.

You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are either acting as
PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.
Incorrect.

61.56 is pretty clear. The instructor doesn't need to act as PIC
to log PIC, just to give instruction.

An ATP can log PIC when acting as PIC.

A private or better pilot can log PIC time when acting as PIC
in an operation requiring more than one pilot under the aircraft
certification or under the rules under which the flight was conducted.

Now the latter was probably done with Part 135/121 operations in
mind, but the FAA has affirmed that simulated instrument flight
IS indeed a more-than-one-pilot-required operation.

Ron Natalie wrote:
Dave Butler wrote:

You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are either acting as
PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.

Incorrect.

Hmm, Ron, you are usually precise in your statements, but, assuming you
meant 61.51 below, I don't see anything that contradicts my statement.


61.56 is pretty clear. The instructor doesn't need to act as PIC
to log PIC, just to give instruction.

Did you mean 61.51?


An ATP can log PIC when acting as PIC.

A private or better pilot can log PIC time when acting as PIC
in an operation requiring more than one pilot under the aircraft
certification or under the rules under which the flight was conducted.

Now the latter was probably done with Part 135/121 operations in
mind, but the FAA has affirmed that simulated instrument flight
IS indeed a more-than-one-pilot-required operation.

On 01/22/07 09:46, pgbnh wrote:
I think part of what you said was in error:


Of course, to do this, the safety
pilot must be qualified to be PIC (if he doesn't have a complex
endorsement,
he can't be PIC in a complex airplane for example).

I think the regs say that the SP must be rated in Category and Class. I
believe that if I am rated in a SEL airplane, I can fly SP in a complex SEL
airplane.

That's true to act as Safety Pilot. I was talking about acting as PIC.
To be PIC you must also have all the required endorsements, etc.

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 01/22/07 05:22, Jim Macklin wrote:
Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they are
not actually sole manipulator of the controls.

What? Can you please show the regulation that stipulates this?
I've never seen it.


Be honest, you are only required while the hood is on.

That depends on the agreement made by the pilots ahead of time. If
they both agree that the safety pilot shall be PIC, then he can log
it that way - for the entire flight. Of course, to do this, the safety
pilot must be qualified to be PIC (if he doesn't have a complex
endorsement,
he can't be PIC in a complex airplane for example).

However, if the pilot flying is PIC, the safety pilot is required only
while the pilot flying has a view limiting device on, and should log
SIC only for that time.





"kevmor" wrote in message
ups.com...
| When logging safety pilot time, what do you put under the
"duration of
| flight" column? For example, say I'm flying with a friend
who is
| wearing a hood. We decided I'll be responsible for the
flight before
| hand. I can log PIC for the time the other person had the
hood on, and
| under the "total flight time" column, put the same as the
PIC/when he
| was wearing the hood?
|
| Someone told me once if the person wore the hood most of
the flight,
| you could log the "flight time" for the entire flight,
because you were
| a required crew member. But once he takes it off though,
you aren't
| required...so I'm thinking it's the same as the PIC time.
|





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Dave Butler wrote:
Ron Natalie wrote:
Dave Butler wrote:

You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are either acting as
PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.

Incorrect.

Hmm, Ron, you are usually precise in your statements, but, assuming you
meant 61.51 below, I don't see anything that contradicts my statement.

Where in 61.51 does it say anybody (instructor or not) can log PIC
because they are acting as PIC? There are two specific instances
(ATP and multipilot operation). Otherwise you have to meet one of
the other requirements.

I think part of what you said was in error:


Of course, to do this, the safety
pilot must be qualified to be PIC (if he doesn't have a complex
endorsement,
he can't be PIC in a complex airplane for example).

I think the regs say that the SP must be rated in Category and Class. I
believe that if I am rated in a SEL airplane, I can fly SP in a complex SEL
airplane.
"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 01/22/07 05:22, Jim Macklin wrote:
Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they are
not actually sole manipulator of the controls.

What? Can you please show the regulation that stipulates this?
I've never seen it.


Be honest, you are only required while the hood is on.

That depends on the agreement made by the pilots ahead of time. If
they both agree that the safety pilot shall be PIC, then he can log
it that way - for the entire flight. Of course, to do this, the safety
pilot must be qualified to be PIC (if he doesn't have a complex
endorsement,
he can't be PIC in a complex airplane for example).

However, if the pilot flying is PIC, the safety pilot is required only
while the pilot flying has a view limiting device on, and should log
SIC only for that time.





"kevmor" wrote in message
ups.com...
| When logging safety pilot time, what do you put under the
"duration of
| flight" column? For example, say I'm flying with a friend
who is
| wearing a hood. We decided I'll be responsible for the
flight before
| hand. I can log PIC for the time the other person had the
hood on, and
| under the "total flight time" column, put the same as the
PIC/when he
| was wearing the hood?
|
| Someone told me once if the person wore the hood most of
the flight,
| you could log the "flight time" for the entire flight,
because you were
| a required crew member. But once he takes it off though,
you aren't
| required...so I'm thinking it's the same as the PIC time.
|





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA