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Arizona Cross-Country Soaring Camp
On Dec 15, 7:48*am, John Cochrane
wrote: Mike: Thanks for the thoughtful response. *I'm keeping this open because we really do want to hear from people and structure contests to be as attractive as possible. Firstly, we chose to have a camp because we were told that there were no available windows for a sanctioned contest. * This doesn't sound right. Regionals can run pretty much any time they want. Especially out West where there are so few contests. I'll look in to it. Secondly, we wanted a more rule-free environment to encourage uninhibited cross-country flying. *One of the issues we had last year in a local contest series was a delayed start (3:00 PM!) with a long task that proved impossible to fly in the allocated time. *A whole bunch of gliders hung around for hours waiting for the start as the day died. *The task was also set in the opposite direction to the best weather and ended up with a lot of landouts. *Furthermore, enabling free flying with no set course will avoid the majority of conflicts in gaggles and turnpoints, greatly enhancing safety. *One or two local pilots have a good history of spotting days with early starts and have made good use of those. We want to encourage pilots to read the weather and conditions and decide for themselves when and where to fly, rather than just race round a fixed course. As before, there is nothing in contest rules that forces any of this. You can open the start gate at 8 am, call an unrestricted MAT, or set huge turn areas. However, a particular beef of mine is the US attitude to team flying, which is diametrically opposite to that in the rest of the world. Free of this (uniquely US) rule, we can fly together, chat about it, fly further and have more fun. *Pretty much what we do most weekends. We also see the camp as a good format to bring on juniors, less experienced cross-country pilots and those not familiar with the area by providing mentors. *Even you must agree that regular contests aren't the best place for newcomers to hone their skills. For just this reason we're allowing team flying in regionals this year. Just ask for a waiver. We're hungry for regionals to try it, and if it's a success we'll make it a permanent option in the rules. Free of the contest restriction to cross certain airspace will also improve opportunities from El Tiro (this is for Kirk). For fairness, the rules don't us fly in places where a transponder is required (over class C). If everyone has a transponder, you might get a waiver for that. More generally, just about anything reasonable you want can be arranged by waiver. Ask before giving up! Insurance for contests is significantly higher than camps or fly-ins and we are going to avoid a lot of the costs of having manpower to do task-setting and scoring. Can't help here, but I hope you're getting the same protection from "camp" insurance that you do from more expensive "contest" insurance. You usually get what you pay for. Task setting is easy -- it sounds like you're going to call an unrestricted MAT every day! I don't see an escape from scoring, but winscore really does make it easy. In short, we are also trying to encourage cross-country flying, but don't think that contests with ever-increasing restrictive rules are necessarily the only or best way to achieve this. I'm not sure what "restrictions" you have in mind. We also want to encourage cross country flying, and that's why the rules are becoming ever-less restrictive, with more and more options available and more still available by waiver! John For me, it would be best if you decided it is a real "Camp" or a real "Contest". A good XC camp has a mentor teamed up with 1-2 pilots during the flight for the purpose of training, demonstration, stretching goals, etc. The groups stick together for the day/week. In a contest it's every pilot for themselves, and the goal is to put as much distance between you and the other guy as possible (unless you are a leach, of course...) You tend to fly alone, radio silent, and isolated. The two formats are by definition, opposed to each other. For anyone that has attended AirSailing events, you know they have struck a nice balance by having a focused XC camp, and a separate, very informal, but still official contest. The contest is wonderful because while it is competitive, the tone is more cooperative, with the more experienced pilots helping the less, and briefings including lots of "newbie" details that help pilots learn the ropes. Task are challenging, but not super aggressive, and picked with safety/landouts in mind. A sanctioned contest also allows new pilots a way to be ranked. Once in the air though, pilots are on their own. One thing I have never seen, that would be interesting to me is "in the air" training for contests. Pilots would be paired for skill level and ship type. each pair would have a mentor pilot. A task would be called. The mentor pilot would then help them make decisions about weather, routes, thermals to skip or take, safety, landouts, final glide, etc. along the course. The trio would stick together for the whole task. At the end of the day, perhaps they could be scored as "teams" just to learn the intricacies/strategies around the contest rules and how they relate to decisions made in flight. Some post flight log analysis would be super helpful too, to figure out where improvements could be made to XC speed. Matt |
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Arizona Cross-Country Soaring Camp
On Dec 15, 7:23*am, John Cochrane
wrote: I can't resist the bait. What "problems" exactly? Almost all of the goals here are easy to accomplish in a "real" contest. I heard that SSA would not give approval for a Region 9 South contest, which is what Tucson club had wanted to host. No idea why, but I'm not happy about it. http://www.asa-soaring.org/forum/top...ro+in+May+2011 Andy |
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Arizona Cross-Country Soaring Camp
On Dec 15, 10:39*am, Andy wrote:
On Dec 15, 7:23*am, John Cochrane wrote: I can't resist the bait. What "problems" exactly? Almost all of the goals here are easy to accomplish in a "real" contest. I heard *that SSA would not give approval for a Region 9 South contest, which is what Tucson club had wanted to host. *No idea why, but I'm not happy about it. http://www.asa-soaring.org/forum/top...2&forum_id=4&T.... Andy There is absolutely no reason you can't have a Region 9 south contest. Only issue would be if the requested date conflicts with another contest. It would be useful to find out who did not approve the request so this can be addressed. The contest committee wants to support contests in whatever way we can consistent with safety etc. I've run "rookie schools" as part of regionals for years to get new pilots going. You guys could too. We do ground sessions before flying, and individual as well as group coaching. It's fun. And, for 2011, by waiver, radio use in regionals will be available if folks want to try it. Go For It UH |
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Arizona Cross-Country Soaring Camp
Sounds like you'll have a good camp/contest and have some fun and
hopefully some new XC pilots will learn a lot. I wish it wasn't a two day drive from here to Tuscon or I'd consider joining you. I'm also really glad this thread came up. I read through the rules committee report that was posted yesterday but didn't really understand the implications of these rule changes. Thanks Hank and John for the descriptions of how the rules are becoming more flexible for regional competitions. Now, if I could only find a regional within a days drive of Wichita for 2011... |
#5
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Arizona Cross-Country Soaring Camp
I apologize in advance for the long post, but I need to put forth some
arguments here! P.S. does everyone in the USA know that when the SSA was formed in 1932, that the ONLY reason for the charter was to RACE gliders? Back in 1932, that was the only reason for the formation of the Association. Things may have changed in the last few years, but we should not ignore our history. Since I was involved with all of the contests in Region 9, and the formation of a couple of "new" sites to hold contests in Region 9, I HAVE to comment. We are fortunate in Region 9, as there are too many clubs/sites wanting to hold contests. There is no way that there is enough people for ALL of the places that wanted to hold sanctioned contests in Region 9 this year. The 15 meter nationals are being run with a regional, to ensure that we get enough turn-out to afford tow pilots and the like, Parowan organizers wanted to run a contest (haven't seen anything yet), and the Tucson club wanted to run another contest like last year. Other regions may not have enough contests, but Region 9 is fortunate to have such GREAT soaring. The recommendation (not the final word from the SSA or otherwise) that the club in Tucson wait a year before holding another contest. It was a recommendation that was also given to other clubs after running their first contest. 1. You don't want the club members to feel pushed out by all the contestants and priorities that a contest will impose. There were a few comments from club members at 2 of the above-mentioned sites, but Tucson in particular has an ACTIVE great cross country school/ training, part of the active and growing ASA (Arizona Soaring Association) and some of the old-time members of the club don't like contests, don't like youth, and you have to be respectful to ALL members of the club, when you have a GREAT racing site like Tucson. That club is actually one of the premier soaring sites and facilities that I have ever seen. 2. In the Southwest, you have a problem being able to afford the Tow Pilots. Because they have to travel such great distances to get there, and then because of the density altitudes, the mountain ranges, etc., You also have a problem getting tow Pilots that have good safety records, good planes and practiced at towing. The major problem is that the best tow pilots are towing for their clubs, and the clubs aren't willing to give up their pilots or planes for a week of a contest and lose the business at their local clubs! Most of the good soaring sites in Region 9 have to have the gliders towed out to almost beyond glide back to the airport, because of geographical terrain. 3. You have to find people willing to be contest managers. The contest management job is a non-paid, non-appreciated difficult job to do. Most of the people in the SSA racing committee (with the few exceptions of Garrett and Karl, both of whom leave the details to their wives) have or understand the management of a contest. Each location in Region 9, have been training new contest managers, and training scorers. Racing is definitely on the upswing in Region 9, and not decreasing as in other regions. I also have an "issue" with the racing committee that makes new rules and then doesn't officially inform any of the contests managers (who are almost NEVER racing pilots) of any new rules changes, even when they already have contests sanctioned. That is another discussion for another time and place. 4. A lot of pilots give LOTS of reasons why they don't want to fly in contests, and the number one reason that I hear, is that I am not a competitive type, and I won't endanger myself or my ship by flying in a contest. Whether that is valid or not is a different discussion for a different time. The only people that I hear complain about the costs of contests are the people that actually alread fly in the contests, and then I always ask them to review the Profit/Loss statements that contest managers are required to give out to each contestant. No one has ever come back with anything after actually reading the profit/loss statements. I did have one pilot in the last 5 years, ask me about an item on the P/L statement, but that resulted in a change in the way one line item was reported, and the pilot offered to help with that line item the next year. God Bless pilots who read the numbers! (He is one of my favorites). If people complain about costs at my contests, they can always ask for the budget before hand, as I prepare budgets before I send in a sanction request. My average profit for a sanctioned contest in Region 9, is about $500 dollars. Obviously, I manage contests for the love of the pilots within my region and even then, I mostly donate my share of the company profits to the Bultman Fund, Juniors, and US teams. 5. All of the regional contests in Region 9 DO have instructional classes (bless Karl Streideick for starting that tradition at Parowan). They are very well attended and many pilots look forward to them. At the Tucson club, we had a lot of the club members who were not racing attend the classes. It is a WONDERFUL way to share knowledge and love the sport with everyone. Last year, I had several club members that weren't racing tell me how much they learned and enjoyed from the great class leaders. THANK YOU to Billy Hill for arranging the classes! the Tucson Soaring Club has worked hard to come up with a plan that would entice many people, without the restrictions of the contests as they were known at the time of planning. (another issue with the race committee, is that the lead time for approval is WAY too short) Most people NEED at least a year to get vacation time to get to a contest. Hence the new rules of regionals that can be run in successive weekends. However, the successive weekends don't help much when Region 9 is so huge, that it takes a day's drive to get to each contest sites, and that's only if you are a local. Having an "OLC Cross Country Camp" solves a lot of problems with having an SSA sanctioned contest: 1. Every pilot can soar to the level that they are comfortable with based on their own levels of achievement 2. You don't have to compete with other's in different ships within the same class, unless you want to 3. You can review the area, and decide what terrain you are most comfortable with, AND you talk to the other pilots on the radio to see what is happening on the other side of the same contest area 4. You can try out stuff you learn in the classes that are held every morning and stretch your knowledge, without jeopardizing your position in the "rankings", (pardon the pun) that rankle pilots who are not competitive, but can't stand seeing experiments based on newly gained knowledge drop them to the bottom of the list. 5. OLC is fun, because you can compare it to your own past history, even if you are in a new location 6. OLC is fun, because you can compare your flights to everyone in the world, not just within the state/contest or club. Another advantage to this type of contest/cross country/OLC/camp, is that you can practice landing-out. The skill and experience with landing out is SO important that pilots really should NOT race in an SSA sanctioned contest without experience at land outs. A lot of clubs will not allow pilots to practice their land outs, so then how is a pilot to practice that? this is a great place with no stress added to the procedure (more than the normal drat and durn, I can't make it frustration). I am a whole hearted supporter of this idea that the Tucson Club came up with. It is not a replacement to SSA sanctioned contests, it is a way to gather pilots, have training, fun, and race. Of course, if everyone in the neighboring regions want to come to one of the 4-5 planned SSA sanctioned contests in Region 9, we would WELCOME them with open arms. Soaring in this area is INCREDIBLE...Every state within Region 9 has some of the best soaring in the country (Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico). If you want to fly in a "sanctioned" contest, we have plenty of those too.....but this OLC one should be lots of FUN too. Besides, the best two OLC clubs in the entire World all seem to be in Region 9! I love the rivalry between Albq. and Tucson! All the rivalry can't be anything but GOOD for the sport. Micki |
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