If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#91
|
|||
|
|||
barrel roll in 172
Dudley
Can it be said? In a Barrel Roll the ball starts centered and stays centered throughout the roll until aircraft returns to straight and level flight and starts some other maneuver. In a Slow Roll (sometimes called Point Roll) the ball starts centered and is then never centered except momentarily when bird has rolled 180 degrees and is inverted, until completion of roll and return to straight and level flight? Rolls are easy to explain face to face in briefing using hands or models and demo in air, but over Internet the nuances of English make it difficult. Big John `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````` On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:43:10 GMT, "Dudley Henriques" wrote: Ron; I think what might be happening here is that some folks are defining the roll from the set point rather than from level flight. It's true that any raising of the nose from level flight will require more than 1 g, but once at the set point and initiating the roll (aileron roll) you can unload the airplane all the way down to 0 g if you like right up to the backside recovery to level flight, where the g of course has to be returned. Dudley Henriques "Ron Natalie" wrote in message om... Big John wrote: Andrey As has been said in all the posts, the short answer is NO. 172 is not certified to do barrel rolls. However I can barrel roll a 172 only pulling 1 G which puts no more load on airframe than straight and level flight. I have thousands of hours to back up my statement. No you can not. It's not possible to even start the roll without going greater than 1G. |
#92
|
|||
|
|||
barrel roll in 172
Morgans wrote:
"john smith" wrote Certified? No. Possible? Yes, but you will finish much lower than where you started. Don't encourage that type of behavior with a yes. If he had to ask, he is probably not a competent aerobatic pilot, and a blown barrel roll could stall the plane, or overstress it, so it fails then, or later. I'll bet he is not going to wear a parachute, either, which is required. The answer to rolling a normal category plane should be no, always. We don't want his, or someone else's blood on our hands. I am wondering why, if one may spin a 172, why one may not roll a 172 ... |
#93
|
|||
|
|||
barrel roll in 172
Already went looking and found it. As Shake Spear said, a
pig pen smells just like a sty. Or was it roses? "Morgans" wrote in message ... | | "Jim Macklin" wrote in message | news:Ol5wg.79455$ZW3.31376@dukeread04... | I've always used rudder and elevator to hold the nose on a | point when rolling, the roll being done with aileron and the | nose held on the point with sometime uncoordinated use of | the controls. I've never flown in competition. Never done | slow or hesitation rolls. If I had my way, I'd do a hundred | hammerheads for every roll. | | I had called that an aileron roll, but from the site, that is a slow roll, | even if it is done fast! g | | Which acro site, give a link and I'll check it out. | | http://www.iac.org/begin/figures.html#Aileron%20Rolls | | Good site. | -- | Jim in NC | |
#94
|
|||
|
|||
barrel roll in 172
Yep, I used the wrong word/name. Of course the redneck roll
is finding a drunk to pay your bar bill. "Big John" wrote in message ... | | Jim | | You explained what has been known as a 'slow roll' since I started | flying heavy iron in the 40's. Have heard them called point rolls also | but only on rare occasions. | | I thinK Stephen may be a Troll from his postings. I'm going to stop | trying to feed him ( | | Big John | `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````` | | On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:17:40 -0500, "Jim Macklin" | wrote: | | I've always used rudder and elevator to hold the nose on a | point when rolling, the roll being done with aileron and the | nose held on the point with sometime uncoordinated use of | the controls. I've never flown in competition. Never done | slow or hesitation rolls. If I had my way, I'd do a hundred | hammerheads for every roll. | | Which acro site, give a link and I'll check it out. | |
#95
|
|||
|
|||
barrel roll in 172
Because Cessna didn't make it in the aerobatic category.
"Terry" wrote in message ... | Morgans wrote: | "john smith" wrote | | Certified? No. | Possible? Yes, but you will finish much lower than where you started. | | Don't encourage that type of behavior with a yes. If he had to ask, he is | probably not a competent aerobatic pilot, and a blown barrel roll could | stall the plane, or overstress it, so it fails then, or later. | | I'll bet he is not going to wear a parachute, either, which is required. | | The answer to rolling a normal category plane should be no, always. | | We don't want his, or someone else's blood on our hands. | | I am wondering why, if one may spin a 172, why one may not roll a 172 ... |
#96
|
|||
|
|||
barrel roll in 172
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:14:38 -0700, Terry wrote
in :: I am wondering why, if one may spin a 172, why one may not roll a 172 ... From: "Jim Macklin" Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting Subject: barrel roll in 172 Message-ID: 2SQvg.78944$ZW3.35114@dukeread04 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:31:05 -0500 The issue is recovery from a botched barrel roll, such as in inverted stall followed by a high speed dive and too strong a pull on recovery. For what maximum negative G load is the a C-172 certified in Utility Category? For what absolute maximum negative G load is the C-172 designed? From: Big John Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting Subject: barrel roll in 172 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:27:19 -0500 Message-ID: My 1971 172/Skyhawk Owneers [sic] manual shows: Utility Caategory [sic] Maneuvers Max pos G's = 4.4 Chandelles Lazy Eights Steep Turns Spins Stalls (Except whip stalls) Acrobatics that may impose high loads should not be attempted. |
#97
|
|||
|
|||
barrel roll in 172
Bob Moore wrote:
T o d d P a t t i s t wrote A barrel roll is often described as: "imagine the wheels of the aircraft rolling on the inside of a barrel." In Dudley's description of the classic competition BR, the track of those wheels is going perpendicular to the axis of the barrel at the top, straight down the axis of the barrel at the beginning and end, and the barrel is perfectly round. In Dudley's expanded description of the BR (as any roll in 3D) the track might not be perpendicular at the top and the barrel might not be perfectly round. Todd, in your example, the wheels would "scuff" around the inside of the barrel. In order to roll around the inside of the barrel. The starting heading must be some number of degrees off the axis of the barrel, 45 degrees in the classic example. At the top of the barrel, the heading would have changed by 90 degrees, but would be 45 degrees off the axis of the barrel on the other side. Yes, the "classic" barrel roll is a helix and the angle to the longitudinal axis should remain constant. Matt |
#98
|
|||
|
|||
barrel roll in 172
Ron Natalie wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote: Your thousands of hours aside, this is simply an incorrect statement. A barrel roll requires flying a loop and you can't fly a loop at 1 G. It sounds like you are describing an aileron roll. You can't even do an aileron roll without exceeding 1G. Small g's sure, but you gotta go 1 to do just about anything. Yes, for an aileron roll as you have to raise the nose at the start. However, a slow roll should be able to be flown at 1G throughout, but it would probably take someone of Hoover's (or Dudley's) skill to do it. If you kept the center of mass of the airplane on the straight and level track you are flying at the start, it would be 1G. The 1G wouldn't always be positive with respect to the top of the airplane, however, so I guess I should say |a|=1G :-) Matt |
#99
|
|||
|
|||
barrel roll in 172
Bob Moore wrote:
T o d d P a t t i s t wrote Starting the BR with the aircraft track at 90 degrees to the barrel produces a loop (no roll portion to the BR). Starting it parallel to the barrel (and reducing the diameter of the barrel to zero) makes it into an aileron roll (no loop portion to the BR). Everything in between is possible, and at some point on either side as you get closer to the loop or aileron roll, you've got to stop calling it a BR. You might not have his thousands of hours, but you certainly understand a lot more about barrel rolls than does Big John. :-) :-) Of course, what can you expect from a person who flys "birds" instead of "airplanes". :-) May be some definitions...:-) Barrel Roll....................45 degrees off axis Aileron roll...................00 degrees off axis Loop...........................90 degrees off axis Sloppy barrel roll......22.5-67.5 degrees off axis Sloppy aileron roll.......01-22.5 degrees off axis Sloppy loop...............67.5-89 degrees off axis I think I could do those last three! Matt |
#100
|
|||
|
|||
barrel roll in 172
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:49:49 GMT, Bob Moore wrote in :: May be some definitions...:-) Barrel Roll....................45 degrees off axis Aileron roll...................00 degrees off axis Loop...........................90 degrees off axis Sloppy barrel roll......22.5-67.5 degrees off axis Sloppy aileron roll.......01-22.5 degrees off axis Sloppy loop...............67.5-89 degrees off axis This refers to the direction of flight relative to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft? No, the longitudinal axis of the invisible barrel in the sky. Unless you are in a slip or skid or stall or spin (or probably other things), the direction of flight is always 0 degrees off the longitudinal axis of the airplane. Matt |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
rec.aviation.aerobatics FAQ | Dr. Guenther Eichhorn | Aerobatics | 0 | October 1st 04 07:27 AM |
rec.aviation.aerobatics FAQ | Dr. Guenther Eichhorn | Aerobatics | 0 | July 1st 04 08:27 AM |
rec.aviation.aerobatics FAQ | Dr. Guenther Eichhorn | Aerobatics | 0 | June 1st 04 08:27 AM |
rec.aviation.aerobatics FAQ | Dr. Guenther Eichhorn | Aerobatics | 0 | May 1st 04 08:27 AM |
rec.aviation.aerobatics FAQ | Dr. Guenther Eichhorn | Aerobatics | 0 | April 1st 04 08:27 AM |