If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
On May 5, 8:39*am, vic20owner wrote:
No, I am not planning to buy anything for at least a year ... but I have often wondered what other "hidden" expenses or obstacles there are associated with buying a used glider. I regularly see older planes in the $10K USD range (which is well within my price range). * BUT, for future reference, what inspections are required for the glider to be considered air worthy, and what else should I know before considering such a purchase aside from obvious structural damage or electrical problems? *How much damage should I consider "normal wear and tear" such as delaminating wing tips, bent rudder, etc which is a relatively easy repair versus something which is major (wing struts, etc)? Also, is there any specific paperwork (flight hours, maintenance records, etc) I should insist on seeing, etc. *Is it common to pay someone else to inspect the aircraft prior to purchase? Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Thanks -tom Tom, You've read some sound wisdom here. There are a lot of opinions out there, and some you can take with a grain of salt. The best way to find the glider for you is to ask questions. You will quickly find that there are pilots, and then there are armchair pilots. I've found that when it comes to certain biases about planes, it is generally they that have never flown one that have the greatest biases. For example. I was told never to buy a plane with a flying stab..."Too sensitive", they said. Or, a glider without spoilers is too hard to land. It's all bunk. It is just a matter of being prepared for the plane you want to buy. Certainly I wouldn't advise that you to buy a high aspect ratio super ship with flaps as your first plane. But there is nothing wrong with getting a little performance for you to grow into. I'm sure your instructor would be happy to offer advice on your first plane. From my very first flight, my instructor knew that I was going to buy a plane and we talked constantly about it. I considered myself to be an average student, and I went from a 2-33 to a Grob 103, then right to a Pik-20. There was a steep learning curve for the Pik-20 becasue I had to book learn it then fly it, as there are no trainers like it. I adapted, learned and survived. I'm now having the time of my life! When shopping for a plane I would also ask to see a current weight and balance sheet. I got stung on a purchase by just asking whart the max pilot weight was. The owner told me a number, but after the purchase I found out that he quoted what was in the POH. After a weight and balance was done I was shocked to find out that it actually was 35 pounds less than what he said. After adding a parachute I was already overweight. I sold the plane and became a smarter shopper. I'm sure you will make a smart purchase that you will enjoy for many years. Warren Evans |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
Thanks everyone for the very detailed replies. I have to admit I am surprised at just how helpful the member of this list are to beginners. I would prefer a 2 seater so I can fly with friends,family, or other fellow pilots. At the moment (this may change with experience) I am primarily interested in a Let Blanik L-23 or L-12 simply because I am flying an L-23 in my lessons and enjoy it quite a bit. -tom |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
I'll reiterate what others have said about the value of a GOOD
trailer. Doesn't matter if the trailer is factory built or homebuilt. What matters is how it works. How it works at holding the precious cargo safely. How it works at making rigging and de-rigging easy. How it works at protecting the glider from the elements. How it works in towing stability and providing adequate space for "stuff" like wheel chocks, wash bucket, towout gear, wing stand, tail dolly, etc. If the trailer is a knuckle-buster, the soaring experience will NOT BE FUN. Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
In additon to all the wise words already posted, make absolutely sure
it has a recent weight and balance, and check carefully what the minimum and maximum pilot weights are. Some gliders have a very limited range |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
In message , Paul Goulding
writes snip Buy a glider that is popular with glider pilots ASW19b , cirrus, etc My advise would be a GROB ASTIR CS .. good handling .. indestructable Gel coat, most have original 1977 gel. Roomy cockpit and good performance. The concrete swan. Watch people develop bad backs & hernias when you want help rigging it, unless you have one of those one-man rig devices that take most of the weight! Snip -- Surfer! Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
In message
, vic20owner writes Thanks everyone for the very detailed replies. I have to admit I am surprised at just how helpful the member of this list are to beginners. I would prefer a 2 seater so I can fly with friends,family, or other fellow pilots. At the moment (this may change with experience) I am primarily interested in a Let Blanik L-23 or L-12 simply because I am flying an L-23 in my lessons and enjoy it quite a bit. When you learnt to drive, did you go out and buy a car like the one you learnt in? Would you still enjoy driving the type of car you learnt on? Do you still do the same type of driving you did when you learnt? When I went solo just under 3 years ago I had barely been out of glide range of the club. Then I started getting more adventurous and found the performance limitations of the basic 1-seat gliders we have, so I got my own bit of glass and am having a ball doing XC flying when conditions permit. I'd suggest you try as many different gliders as you can during the next year before deciding to look for something. Try to have a go with some more modern types including glass gliders - the Blanik you are flying is basically a 50-year old design, updated a bit. And think very hard if it's really appropriate to have a 2-seat glider to give an occasional joy-ride. It will cost more to insure and maintain, and be harder to rig. Wanting to do some flying with friends is fine, but most of the folks I know use the club gliders for that. -- Surfer! Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
On May 5, 10:39*am, vic20owner wrote:
No, I am not planning to buy anything for at least a year ... but I have often wondered what other "hidden" expenses or obstacles there are associated with buying a used glider. I regularly see older planes in the $10K USD range (which is well within my price range). * BUT, for future reference, what inspections are required for the glider to be considered air worthy, and what else should I know before considering such a purchase aside from obvious structural damage or electrical problems? *How much damage should I consider "normal wear and tear" such as delaminating wing tips, bent rudder, etc which is a relatively easy repair versus something which is major (wing struts, etc)? Also, is there any specific paperwork (flight hours, maintenance records, etc) I should insist on seeing, etc. *Is it common to pay someone else to inspect the aircraft prior to purchase? Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Thanks -tom You can write books regarding this. One man's dream is another's nightmare. I love to hear things like "concrete swan", etc. I own an Astir CS and it is no less problem or weight to rig than a K6, a Standard Cirrus, etc. It is a fantastic ship, you simply have to kn ow how to rig it rather than muscling it about mindlessly. This is the internet. Heed and read what you will from this venue but PLEASE base your purchase on reading books (Piggot, Wander, etc) and on the advice of fliers you know. You can get into a first gen glass ship at your price if you look around quite a bit and you don't mind a ship with aesthetic flaws (chips, gel craze to an extent, etc). All superficial, at least should be. Do a thorough investigation of the AD's. The Astir CS, 77, II, III etc are ALL going to have to have the wing spar spiggot AD done soon by mandate of the FAA. This isn't hype or conjecture now, its fact. The AD can run in the 4 thousand USD range to complete. I bought mine from the UK with this particular AD already done. This wasn't by luck, it was through research. My ship is in fine mechanical condition, flies like a dream and goes together as easily as most. Work smarter in rigging, not harder. The total price including shipping to the states in geting the ship [ here was under 12k USD. This was a steal but if you ollok and are flexible and creative you can find a decent ship like this. 650 insurance, 250 annual. I already owned a chute, look for deals including a chute. For anohter 400 USD I could have gotten a chute with the deal. Good luck and remember, dont be hasty and read! You'll hear all kinds of opinions like flaps.no flaps, no wood/wood, no v-tail/v-tail. I found that most of the folks who generate such opinions have never even flown the type of ship they offer negative viewpoints regarding. They simply restate opinions they hear. Good luck! |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
At 14:39 05 May 2009, vic20owner wrote:
I regularly see older planes in the $10K USD range (which is well within my price range). When you say that range, do you mean 10 to 20 Kbucks? If so, then you've got a lot to choose from. If you really mean around $10K, then what are you actually seeing out there in the market for that amount? Probably old wooden gliders (nothing wrong with wood), the Schreder homebuilts, and the 1-26. I'm assuming this is happening in the US. The 1-26 is what it is, and it isn't for everybody. Surely you've flown one by now. The advantages are that it has a great support network, including its own one-class contests, there are always some for sale and it's easy to sell one when you want to. Another consideration - you can get twice the glider for the money if you have a partner. On the other hand, choosing the right partner is probably even more important than choosing the right glider. On the gripping hand, a partner is pretty much obligated to come and get you when you land out. As others have said, insist on seeing a *recent* weight and balance. Better yet, bring your own scales or watch while it is weighed. Gliders never seem to get lighter as they age. Don't buy a two-seater for your own private use. Use the club gliders or rent one when you need one. Have you disassembled a two-seat Blanik? If it's hard to assemble, you won't go cross-country. (Oh, another advantage of the 1-26, as the fans like to remind everybody: the retrieves are shorter.) Jim Beckman |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
vic20owner wrote:
....I am primarily interested in a Let Blanik L-23 or L-12 simply because I am flying an L-23 in my lessons and enjoy it quite a bit. If you have *any* desire to fly xc, do *not* buy the Blanik - unless you're guaranteed to land out at an airport and get an aero retrieve home :-). As the joy of flying is important, so is the joy (or lack thereof), of rigging and derigging. Also. it's much easier to get one helper to pull you out of that hay field than the 2 or 3 helpers that you'd need for the Blanik. Tony LS6-b "6N" |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
On May 6, 4:15*pm, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 14:39 05 May 2009, vic20owner wrote: I regularly see older planes in the $10K USD range (which is well within my price range). * When you say that range, do you mean 10 to 20 Kbucks? *If so, then you've got a lot to choose from. *If you really mean around $10K, then what are you actually seeing out there in the market for that amount? *Probably old wooden gliders (nothing wrong with wood), the Schreder homebuilts, and the 1-26. I'm assuming this is happening in the US. * Even if you are in the US don't discount planes from Europe! The shipping cost are relatively inexpensive and the number of glass ships in the 7-10000 € (10-13000$) range is wide. Look at http://www.segelflug.de/cgi-bin/clas...e+Clubkl asse If you buy a German registered ship it is still in conformance i.e. no "Experimental" registration here. Just a thought and I am sure some will balst this advice but I married, I can take being blasted! Bob |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Buying questions - which plane? | John Doe | Owning | 26 | July 25th 05 08:19 AM |
Another beginner Q | Ramapriya | Piloting | 9 | December 31st 04 05:19 PM |
Buying used homebuilt: questions on ELSA | Jim Carriere | Home Built | 2 | October 5th 04 03:00 AM |
suggestion for beginner | sunbearpcs | Owning | 5 | January 21st 04 04:35 PM |
ASW 24 WL for beginner ? | Harry | Soaring | 37 | July 26th 03 02:02 PM |