Late BFR

Jose wrote:

Dunno what to do about the past, but for the future, consider doing the
Wings program. It may be that the flights you already take would count,
and all you need for ground is to attend one of the safety seminars.

although I prefer the safety seminars (opportunities to meet interesting
folks), you can also do some of the online courses offered by AOPA
instead. I haven't done a BFR since the one I did after validating my
foreign license 10 years ago (via a combination of Wings program and
getting new ratings)...

--Sylvain

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check. Even in that case, only the experience necessary for the
check would be relevant. The legality of your prior flight would
rarely come into question unless there was an insurance claim, and in
that case it would be an insurance matter rather than a FAA matter. If
these were personal flights, don't worry about it. Get a flight review
now, and move on.

Calling a FSDO is proably a bad idea. It's like calling the police and
confessing that you have exceeded the speed limit in the past.
However, filing an ASRS can't hurt.





On Mar 24, 5:57 pm, Anonymous coward #673 wrote:
I fly through an organization that requires a proficiency check ride
every six months. As a result I somehow got it into my head that I
didn't need to worry about BFR's any more. But today my instructor
reminded me that a BFR requires an hour of ground instruction, so
technically I have not completed a BFR for (as it turns out) more than
two years (though I have received considerably more recurrent in-flight
training than the regs require). My log book now contains entries for
numerous flights conducted (inadvertently) in violation of FAR61.56.

My question to the group: what is the best way to handle this situation?
Obviously I am going to get my hour of ground instruction ASAP, but what
about all those flights that I've already logged? Should I file an ASRS
form? Call up the local FSDO and confess? Scribble out all those log
entries? Deduct the hours on those illegal flights from my PIC time?
Bribe my flight instructor to back-date my BFR? Or should I just not
worry about it and hope they don't haul my ass to Gitmo for falsifying
my log book?

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.

You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Dan Luke wrote:
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:


The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.


You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Don't you have to show it if you're a soloed
student without a regular license?

Dan Luke wrote:
You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Jim Stewart wrote:
Don't you have to show it if you're a soloed
student without a regular license?

This question came up when I worked at the flight school. The answer
given to our customers by our CFIs was that you must have your student
license and medical with you in the airplane, and if asked in a ramp
check, you must be able to produce a logbook showing the appropriate
solo endorsement, but you don't have to have the logbook with you *in
the airplane* during the flight.

"Dan Luke" wrote:
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.

You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Some of the legal advice I've found says that if you have it with you then
you have to show it if asked. Here's a couple links that say that:

http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Art...ampCheck.shtml
http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181897-1.html

"Jim Logajan" wrote :
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.

You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Some of the legal advice I've found says that if you have it with you then
you have to show it if asked. Here's a couple links that say that:

http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Art...ampCheck.shtml

The article says that the FAA may ask to see it, not that you have to show it.
It also advises, wisely, that you not carry your logbook in the airplane.

http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181897-1.html

Can't read this one; I lost my AvWeb pw a long time ago.

Anyway, the logbook is not one of the items a private pilot is required to
submit to a ramp check.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Dan Luke" wrote:

"Jim Logajan" wrote :
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride
or ramp check.

You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Some of the legal advice I've found says that if you have it with you
then you have to show it if asked. Here's a couple links that say
that:

http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Art...ampCheck.shtml

The article says that the FAA may ask to see it, not that you have to
show it. It also advises, wisely, that you not carry your logbook in
the airplane.

http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181897-1.html

Can't read this one; I lost my AvWeb pw a long time ago.

Here's the relevant quote from that article:

"What Can an FAA Inspector Demand to See?

Upon request, a properly credentialed FAA official may demand to see a
pilot's license and medical certificate and a copy of the pilot's logbook
(if he has it with him). An inspector cannot normally gain entry to
search an aircraft operated under FAR Part 91 without authorization from
the owner or operator, but he may examine the aircraft from the outside
and look through unshaded windows. Exceptions may exist where there is
probable cause that a crime has been committed or in "border crossing"
situations."

Anyway, the logbook is not one of the items a private pilot is
required to submit to a ramp check.

As a practical matter, even if the pilot does have the log book with him
but claims he doesn't have it with him, there doesn't seem to be anything
an FAA official can do to prove that the logbook was with the pilot but
he was not shown it. Sure, something that looks like a log book may be
visible but it may not be that pilot's log book or even the current
logbook of the pilot.

On 2007-03-25 05:54:49 -0700, "Dan Luke" said:


"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.

You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Even so, I cannot imagine an FAA inspector going through your logbook
to see if every flight you ever made was legal or not. At most, he will
look to see when your last BFR was. If it is overdue, the most likely
action is that he will tell you that you need a BFR and encourage you
to get one.

Most FAA inspectors in my experience are not jerks, but people
genuinely interested in aviation safety. Yes, there are a few jerks out
there, but those guys will find an excuse to hang you no matter what
you do. And I am not saying that just because the FAA does a lot of
training flights out of our flight school. :-)
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-03-25 05:54:49 -0700, "Dan Luke" said:


"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.


You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.


Even so, I cannot imagine an FAA inspector going through your logbook to
see if every flight you ever made was legal or not. At most, he will
look to see when your last BFR was. If it is overdue, the most likely
action is that he will tell you that you need a BFR and encourage you to
get one.

Most FAA inspectors in my experience are not jerks, but people genuinely
interested in aviation safety. Yes, there are a few jerks out there, but
those guys will find an excuse to hang you no matter what you do. And I
am not saying that just because the FAA does a lot of training flights
out of our flight school. :-)

I'm glad you said that. I can't help but wonder
why most everyone else has such a contentious
attitude towards the FAA.

How many people have been mistreated by the FAA
to lead them to have such an attitude?