Tow Signals

"Jack" wrote in message
ups.com...
Radios are great but... Radios DO
malfunction... Transmissions DO get walked on...

Parachutes sometimes fail to open, but you still see plenty of them around
gliderports.

And... you don't get
too much for $200- in a portable. That being the opinion of someone
that does radio for a living.

From someone else who does radios for a living, I respectfully disagree.
My little $230.00 Vertex ricebox compares well to some of the stuff my employers
pays $ thousands for! Why would anybody fly without a radio?

Vaughn

Our club has evolved what seems to me a very sensible strategy for
dealing with spoilers open and similar problems.

If the towpilot is not in trouble -- if the towplane is climbing and at
a safe altitude and position -- he/she will not wag the tail. If the
glider pilot's brain has faded enough that the spoilers are out, it's
clear the pilot is having reduced situational awareness, so adding the
task of interpreting a seldom-used emergency signal does risk being
misinterpreted. A low-altitude release with spoilers out will be
catastrophic, and if the tow is still safe, why risk it.

Instead, the tow pilot will try to raise the pilot on the radio. The
tow pilot will keep climbing, keep trying by radio, and bring the
glider directly over the field before trying a rudder waggle. All this
is in a written tow procedures document that eveyrone has to read and
is reviewed at checkouts and flight reviews.

As I think about it, it might be even better to have the tow pilot
level out at 1,800' over the field until the problem is resolved, to
help ensure the glider will not release with the spoilers still out and
the problem undiagnosed.

This does not mean we ignore standard signals, so don't start flaming
on this. They are there, and pilots and towpilots are all expected to
know them and use them if necessary. If the tow pilot is in any doubt
about the safety of continuing the tow with spoiler out, they can wag
to their hearts' content or take whatever other action is appropriate.
And we also brief wing runners to look for spoilers and canopies, and
pilots to do checklists, etc. etc.

John Cochrane BB

There is something to be said for power.. POWER!!
like a 250HP Pawnee..
BT

"BB" wrote in message
ups.com...
Our club has evolved what seems to me a very sensible strategy for
dealing with spoilers open and similar problems.

If the towpilot is not in trouble -- if the towplane is climbing and at
a safe altitude and position -- he/she will not wag the tail. If the
glider pilot's brain has faded enough that the spoilers are out, it's
clear the pilot is having reduced situational awareness, so adding the
task of interpreting a seldom-used emergency signal does risk being
misinterpreted. A low-altitude release with spoilers out will be
catastrophic, and if the tow is still safe, why risk it.

Instead, the tow pilot will try to raise the pilot on the radio. The
tow pilot will keep climbing, keep trying by radio, and bring the
glider directly over the field before trying a rudder waggle. All this
is in a written tow procedures document that eveyrone has to read and
is reviewed at checkouts and flight reviews.

As I think about it, it might be even better to have the tow pilot
level out at 1,800' over the field until the problem is resolved, to
help ensure the glider will not release with the spoilers still out and
the problem undiagnosed.

This does not mean we ignore standard signals, so don't start flaming
on this. They are there, and pilots and towpilots are all expected to
know them and use them if necessary. If the tow pilot is in any doubt
about the safety of continuing the tow with spoiler out, they can wag
to their hearts' content or take whatever other action is appropriate.
And we also brief wing runners to look for spoilers and canopies, and
pilots to do checklists, etc. etc.

John Cochrane BB

It struck me how similar this discussion is to the
use of transponders. Tow signals were all based upon
the fact that gliders did not have radios. Only through
wing waggles, wing rockings, rudder waggles and rudder
induced yawing could the glider pilot and tow pilot
communicate. With a radio, we can talk. The tow pilot
can start each tow with, 'DDS, confirm that your canopy
is locked and spoilers are closed.' A spoilers open
on tow situation could be corrected by the tow pilot
with, 'DDS, your spoilers are open, close your spoilers!'

A potential gear up landing could be avoided by someone
on the ground using the radio to say, 'glider on final,
your gear is not down.'

A canopy open situation could possibly be improved
by someone on the radio talking to the pilot and reminding
them to fly the plane.

I really think it is time for the glider community
to move into the 21st century and use radios. Current
radios and batteries leave no reason to not have them
installed and operating. We use the tow signals so
infrequently that they are not part of your core flying
skills. I know that when I have had high stress flying
situations, my rational brain has shut down. Under
high stress I am in survival mode. I am pretty sure
that the human voice over a radio has a much better
chance of getting the stressed pilot's attention than
all the rudder wagging and wing rocking the tow pilot
can muster.

Now I feel better.

Guy Acheson 'DDS' and '59'

Guy Acheson wrote:
I really think it is time for the glider community
to move into the 21st century and use radios.

Seems like I get almost as many "say again" as actual replies to a
simple air to air chatter question. And then there's getting stepped
on, etc... I agree a radio call in conjunction with a visual signal is
a good idea. There are literally an infinite number of ways to screw
things up between the radio check and the "must work" transmission a
few minutes later.

-Tom

Guy Acheson wrote:
With a radio, we can talk. The tow pilot
can start each tow with, 'DDS, confirm that your canopy
is locked and spoilers are closed.'


This may work at a site that operates only one tow plane but it is a
safety hazard when multiple tow operations are in progress as at a
regional or national contest. The frequency should be kept clear so it
can be used to communicate abnormal or emergency situations.

The required procedure using SSA approved signals is - glider about to
launch confirm that you have completed your pre-takeoff checks and are
ready to launch by wagging your rudder. No radio use required.


Andy

I have never flown a Pawnee and I'm not a tow pilot.
Some of our tow pilots say the plane is so noisy that
the radio is practically useless except to transmit.
They have good headsets..

At 03:12 14 October 2006, 5z wrote:

Guy Acheson wrote:
I really think it is time for the glider community
to move into the 21st century and use radios.

Seems like I get almost as many 'say again' as actual
replies to a
simple air to air chatter question. And then there's
getting stepped
on, etc... I agree a radio call in conjunction with
a visual signal is
a good idea. There are literally an infinite number
of ways to screw
things up between the radio check and the 'must work'
transmission a
few minutes later.

-Tom

I am sorry, but to say a Pawnee is too noisy for a
tow pilot to hear the radio, with headphones, is just
too much of a stretch. That is just a crappy installation
or very poor headphones. The glider community is too
full of just too many excuses for not using a radio.
'The transmission is poor.' ' Engine noise too great.'
' Wind noise too much.' 'English is a second language.'
Come on! Radios should be a standard piece of equipment
and they should work. Tow signals are a valuable back-up
to radio communication, but they should only be a back-up...not
an excuse. Aviation is a serious business, not a casual
walk in the park. People die in aviation and a great
number of incidents in glider aviation could be avoided
with better, more direct communication.

Anyway, that is my opinion.

Guy Acheson 'DDS' and '59'

Guy Acheson wrote:
I am sorry, but to say a Pawnee is too noisy for a
tow pilot to hear the radio, with headphones, is just
too much of a stretch. That is just a crappy installation
or very poor headphones. The glider community is too
full of just too many excuses for not using a radio.
'The transmission is poor.' ' Engine noise too great.'
' Wind noise too much.' 'English is a second language.'
Come on! Radios should be a standard piece of equipment
and they should work. Tow signals are a valuable back-up
to radio communication, but they should only be a back-up...not
an excuse. Aviation is a serious business, not a casual
walk in the park. People die in aviation and a great
number of incidents in glider aviation could be avoided
with better, more direct communication.

Anyway, that is my opinion.

Guy Acheson 'DDS' and '59'



Too many excuses by far.

We run a "vintage glider" club by most standards. My 1970 Std Cirrus was the hot
ship until we got a 1971 Kestrel.

That said - they all have working radios. From the 1956 Bergfalke II/55 to the
Kestrel. Soem of the radios are as old and low performance as what they are
bolted into, butthey all work.

Club rule is - no launch is allowed without the pilot in the glider making a
successful call to ground, on the appropriate frequeny. No excuses, no fuss. Use
a handheld if you must.

Personally, I found fitting a boom microphone and PTT switch to my steam era
King Kx195 radio was an outstanding investment. Next move is to get a decent 760
channel into the panel. Not that the King is a bad radio - it is powerful and
clear. But the amount of battery power it consumes is cause for concern on a
long cross country...

So, my advise is to stop making excuses and fit a halfway decent radio. Your
life could depend on it soem day.

"Bruce Greef" wrote in message
...

Too many excuses by far.

Exactly! I fly with a little Vertex VXA-150 hanging on a light lanyard
around my neck like a piece of jewelry. It costs a whole $230.00, weighs a few
ounces, runs all day on a charge, and is packed with features, including the
weather band. If you can't afford that, you probably should find another hobby.
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page6.htm

Vaughn