Rutan hits 200k feet! Almost there!

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...

The point is the same point that Edmund Hillary and his small
civilian band had when they climbed Everest.

Not the same. Nobody had climbed Everest and returned before Hillary
and Norgay. The X-Prize competition is a race to be the "first" to
do something that's been done before.

A suborbital flight, and repeat it with the same vehicle in a 14 day
period?

Funny, I can't remember hearing of such a thing.

I think you don't understand the actual rules or intent of the Ansari
X-Prize.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Jim Weir wrote:

The point is the same point that Edmund Hillary and his small civilian band had
when they climbed Everest. Sure, Patton's Third Army could have done it by
sheer muscle power and expensive engineering, but Hillary did it with finesse.

snip

Well, no. The 1953 expedition did it along military logistic lines, as did the
earlier Himalayan expeditions to the great peaks. The leader of the expedition was
Brigadier Hunt, and the planning required to move supplies and people up the
mountain was analogous to supplying a 6-8 week military campaign, with Sherpas
acting as porters. After it was done that way well into the '70s, smaller, lighter
weight expeditions started to try and climb Everest and other big Himalayan peaks
'alpine-style', i.e. the climbers themselves carried all their food and gear with
them and climbed in a more or less continuous push from bottom to top. Alpine-style
is quicker, lighter, faster, and cheaper (one Japanese expedition in the '70s
employed over 700 porters getting their gear to base camp, with a couple of hundred
on the mountain itself).

Increased knowledge of extreme altitudes and improved technique and equipment made
such climbs possible. Perhaps the ultimate in finesse and style on Everest was set
by Reinhold Messner's solo climb without oxygen via the North Ridge in the early
'80s. He did have a little support; his girlfriend went to his base camp with him,
and waited for him there. OTOH, even he was mostly climbing a known route. However,
except for the last several hundred yards, so were Hillary and Tenzing, as Tenzing
had been to around the South Summit @ 28,700 ft. (IIRR; possibly they didn't get
that high) the year before with (IIRC) Raymond Lambert, as part of the Swiss
expedition. Bourdillon and Evans had certainly gotten to the South Summit before
retreating, a few days before Hillary and Tenzing made the second attempt that went
the rest of the way.

The 'tourist' climbs of the South Col route nowadays are done in the old style,
because most of the people involved lack the climbing skills and conditioning to do
it on their own. Expert climbers do old or new routes alpine style.

Guy

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net

The X-Prize competition is a race to be the "first" to
do something that's been done before.

What non-government entity has reached outer space (sub-orbital or not)?
That's the largest part of the "not been there nor done that" aspect. The
two-week turnaround is part of the attempt to demonstrate a viable reusable
craft which would encourage commercialization of the activity.

The goal of the X-Prize, as I understand it, is to promote commercial access
to and use of space with a focus on space tourism. There are private launch
facilities, but none of them are for manned spacecraft. All manned space
flight is performed by government agencies that many consider to be far more
wasteful than a commercial enterprise would be.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...

A suborbital flight, and repeat it with the same vehicle in a 14 day
period?

Funny, I can't remember hearing of such a thing.


The capability was there. Individual X-15s were flown within two week
periods a number of times and the craft was flown above 100 km.



I think you don't understand the actual rules or intent of the Ansari
X-Prize.


You'd be wrong abut that.

"John T" wrote in message
ws.com...

What non-government entity has reached outer space (sub-orbital
or not)?


None, but that's irrelevant.



That's the largest part of the "not been there nor done that" aspect.


Why?



The two-week turnaround is part of the attempt to demonstrate a
viable reusable craft which would encourage commercialization of
the activity.


The X-15 had turnaround times less than two weeks.

In article et,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...

A suborbital flight, and repeat it with the same vehicle in a 14 day
period?

Funny, I can't remember hearing of such a thing.

The capability was there. Individual X-15s were flown within two week
periods a number of times and the craft was flown above 100 km.

....you haven't read the actual rules yet, have you?

The X-15 carried one guy (the rules for the X-Prize require that the
craft has to be able to carry three, although it only has to have the
equivalent ballast for the actual prize flight).

The two semi-qualifying (100 km+) X-15 flights took place over a month
apart, in the #3 airframe.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article et, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...

A suborbital flight, and repeat it with the same vehicle in a 14 day
period?

Funny, I can't remember hearing of such a thing.


The capability was there. Individual X-15s were flown within two week
periods a number of times and the craft was flown above 100 km.

So now it's not "it's already been done," it's "it *could* have been already
done?" I think it's time to give up. The X-15 was a really cool plane, but
it wouldn't qualify for the X-Prize even if it was operational today. It
couldn't carry passengers.

It's a shame the orbital followons weren't funded, or space travel would
have looked very different for the last forty years.

Mike Beede

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

The X-15 had turnaround times less than two weeks.

It did, after some lower and slower flights.

Not after the high-altitude flights, though, and the average gap between
"hard" flights of the same airframes was a month and a half.

They also had a tendency to need major parts of the airframe (tail and
wing surfaces) replaced or refurbished after the more demanding flights.

Not to mention they were doing this with a much smaller payload.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...

...you haven't read the actual rules yet, have you?


Yup.



The X-15 carried one guy (the rules for the X-Prize require that the
craft has to be able to carry three, although it only has to have the
equivalent ballast for the actual prize flight).


So the significant thing about the X-Prize is that it requires a three-place
craft?



The two semi-qualifying (100 km+) X-15 flights took place over
a month apart, in the #3 airframe.


The point is the X-Prize does not require any new technology or capability.

"Mike Beede" wrote in message
...

So now it's not "it's already been done," it's "it *could* have
been already done?"


Yes, manned suborbital flight has already been done.



I think it's time to give up.


Do what you must.



The X-15 was a really cool plane, but
it wouldn't qualify for the X-Prize even if it was operational today. It
couldn't carry passengers.


You're missing the point. The X-Prize does not require any new technology
or capability. Manned suborbital spaceflight was accomplished and abandoned
over forty years ago.