BBC Three Counties Radio will broadcast a three hour show from the
International Glenn Miller Festival 2004, LIVE from Twinwood Airfield
in Bedfordshire, England on Monday 30th August.

The show will be streamed live on the internet between 1100 & 1400 GMT
at http://www.bbc.co.uk/threecounties

And on 95.5, 103.8, 104.5 & 98 FM or 630 / 1161 MW across the Three
Counties

>Subject: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>From: (ellay)
>Date: 8/27/2004 12:05 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>BBC Three Counties Radio will broadcast a three hour show from the
>International Glenn Miller Festival 2004, LIVE from Twinwood Airfield
>in Bedfordshire, England on Monday 30th August.
>
>The show will be streamed live on the internet between 1100 & 1400 GMT
>at http://www.bbc.co.uk/threecounties
>
>And on 95.5, 103.8, 104.5 & 98 FM or 630 / 1161 MW across the Three
>Counties


The rumors in the ETO when Glen MIller died was that he was strabbed to death
in a bistro in a knife fight over a whore.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:

>>Subject: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>>From: (ellay)
>>Date: 8/27/2004 12:05 AM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>BBC Three Counties Radio will broadcast a three hour show from the
>>International Glenn Miller Festival 2004, LIVE from Twinwood Airfield
>>in Bedfordshire, England on Monday 30th August.
>>
>>The show will be streamed live on the internet between 1100 & 1400 GMT
>>at http://www.bbc.co.uk/threecounties
>>
>>And on 95.5, 103.8, 104.5 & 98 FM or 630 / 1161 MW across the Three
>>Counties
>
>The rumors in the ETO when Glen MIller died was that he was strabbed to death
>in a bistro in a knife fight over a whore.

Rumors, Art? I thought you were above that kind of thing. Well, maybe
not, considering the political rant you've been on lately.

Here's the word from the official Glenn Miller site:
http://www.glennmillerstore.com/about/bio2.htm
----
Tragic End

As his band prepared to embark on a tour of Europe, Miller boarded a flight
to Paris on December 15, 1944 to make preparatory arrangements for the rest
of his group. Sadly, the transport on which Miller was a passenger
disappeared over the English Channel and was never recovered. The
disappearance of Miller’s aircraft may have been caused by bad weather.
However, records also suggest that bombs, jettisoned by Allied bombers
returning from an aborted mission, may have inadvertently struck the plane.
Even after Glenn Miller’s disappearance, his army band continued to play
for troops, performing up until August 1945, at which time the group
returned to New York and its members were discharged.
----

| George Ruch
| "Is there life in Clovis after Clovis Man?"

>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>From: George Ruch
>Date: 8/27/2004 10:36 AM

>Glen MIller died was that he was strabbed to death
>>in a bistro in a knife fight over a whore.
>
>Rumors, Art? I thought you were above that kind of thing. Well, maybe
>not, considering the political rant you've been on lately.

These rumors were everywhere in the ETO at the time. They are now part of
history since the true cause of his death was never etsblished. When it was
said he wentt down in the chanell the first question we all asked was who was
the pilot?. No answer. which cast suspicion on the whole story. Those of us
who routinely flew the channel never believed a word of it. .The "hit by a bomb
from above" came later when it was clear nobody was buying that crap. And
Miller was seen around Paris around that time. If you don't like what I write
don't read it. And since you weren't the so screw off.

..
Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article >, ArtKramr
> writes
>>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>>From: George Ruch
>>Date: 8/27/2004 10:36 AM
>
>>Glen MIller died was that he was strabbed to death
>>>in a bistro in a knife fight over a whore.
>>
>>Rumors, Art? I thought you were above that kind of thing. Well, maybe
>>not, considering the political rant you've been on lately.
>
>These rumors were everywhere in the ETO at the time. They are now part of
>history since the true cause of his death was never etsblished. When it was
>said he wentt down in the chanell the first question we all asked was who was
>the pilot?. No answer. which cast suspicion on the whole story. Those of us
>who routinely flew the channel never believed a word of it. .The "hit by a bomb
>from above" came later when it was clear nobody was buying that crap. And
>Miller was seen around Paris around that time. If you don't like what I write
>don't read it. And since you weren't the so screw off.
>
>.
>Arthur Kramer
>344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>
It was an RAF bomber crew member who said he saw a C-64 Norseman going
into the channel when the bombs were jettisoned. The pilot was Flight
Officer Morgan, John, R.S. Ser. No. T-190776.

The problems you might have with this are:
(a) the RAF flew sorties, not missions, AFAIK
(b) the airman in question might not have been an officer.

Research (by people who weren't there at the time) has revealed this as
the most likely explanation in many people's opinion.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>From: Peter Twydell
>Date: 8/27/2004 3:23 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In article >, ArtKramr
> writes
>>>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>>>From: George Ruch
>>>Date: 8/27/2004 10:36 AM
>>
>>>Glen MIller died was that he was strabbed to death
>>>>in a bistro in a knife fight over a whore.
>>>
>>>Rumors, Art? I thought you were above that kind of thing. Well, maybe
>>>not, considering the political rant you've been on lately.
>>
>>These rumors were everywhere in the ETO at the time. They are now part of
>>history since the true cause of his death was never etsblished. When it was
>>said he wentt down in the chanell the first question we all asked was who
>was
>>the pilot?. No answer. which cast suspicion on the whole story. Those of
>us
>>who routinely flew the channel never believed a word of it. .The "hit by a
>bomb
>>from above" came later when it was clear nobody was buying that crap. And
>>Miller was seen around Paris around that time. If you don't like what I
>write
>>don't read it. And since you weren't the so screw off.
>>
>>.
>>Arthur Kramer
>>344th BG 494th BS
>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>
>It was an RAF bomber crew member who said he saw a C-64 Norseman going
>into the channel when the bombs were jettisoned. The pilot was Flight
>Officer Morgan, John, R.S. Ser. No. T-190776.
>
>The problems you might have with this are:
>(a) the RAF flew sorties, not missions, AFAIK
>(b) the airman in question might not have been an officer.
>
>Research (by people who weren't there at the time) ha

I rest my case.





Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

>These rumors were everywhere in the ETO at the time. They are now part of
>history since the true cause of his death was never etsblished. When it was
>said he wentt down in the chanell the first question we all asked was who was
>the pilot?. No answer.

The pilot was Johnny Morgan also along was a Colonel Norman Baesell. The
aircraft was a Noordyun Norseman UC-64. Miller's second in command Don Haynes
put Miller's bag in the plane said goodbye to Miller after he got in the plane
and saw the plane take off.

This is from Glenn Miller and His Orchestra by George Simon.

Whether or not it was hit by a salvoed load of RAF bombs is open to conjecture
but the plane left the ground from Twinwood and was never seen again. The
weather was horrendous and the Norseman was not a particularly well equipped
aircraft for bad weather flying.

There are all kinds of rumors. Miller's own brother some time ago came up with
the idea of Miller dying of cancer since he was such a heavy smoker of his old
sponsor Chesterfield's products.

I don't see the Army Air Force deciding to hush up the manner of Miller's death
to the point of somehow disposing of his body and telling his family and the
world that he was lost in a plane crash. What about Baesell and Morgan?

Like all conspiracy theories it just falls apart when you start to add up all
the people that had to be in on it for the rest of thier lives.

Miller had a tremendous impact on the morale of troops in the ETO but he was
not indispensable by any means and all manner of celebraties had already died
or been lost. Why would the USAAF waste the time and effort to hush up
Miller's death to the point of hiding or disposing of his body in order to
claim he was lost over the channel? It would have been easier to write up a
press release about a traffic accident and bury him in one of the brand new
military cemeteries in Normandy.

In the end he was only a band leader and there was still a war to be won.

John Dupre'

>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>From: (JDupre5762)
>Date: 8/27/2004 5:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>These rumors were everywhere in the ETO at the time. They are now part of
>>history since the true cause of his death was never etsblished. When it was
>>said he wentt down in the chanell the first question we all asked was who
>was
>>the pilot?. No answer.
>
>The pilot was Johnny Morgan also along was a Colonel Norman Baesell. The
>aircraft was a Noordyun Norseman UC-64. Miller's second in command Don Haynes
>put Miller's bag in the plane said goodbye to Miller after he got in the
>plane
>and saw the plane take off.
>
>This is from Glenn Miller and His Orchestra by George Simon.
>
>Whether or not it was hit by a salvoed load of RAF bombs is open to
>conjecture
>but the plane left the ground from Twinwood and was never seen again. The
>weather was horrendous and the Norseman was not a particularly well equipped
>aircraft for bad weather flying.
>
>There are all kinds of rumors. Miller's own brother some time ago came up
>with
>the idea of Miller dying of cancer since he was such a heavy smoker of his
>old
>sponsor Chesterfield's products.
>
>I don't see the Army Air Force deciding to hush up the manner of Miller's
>death
>to the point of somehow disposing of his body and telling his family and the
>world that he was lost in a plane crash. What about Baesell and Morgan?
>
>Like all conspiracy theories it just falls apart when you start to add up all
>the people that had to be in on it for the rest of thier lives.
>
>Miller had a tremendous impact on the morale of troops in the ETO but he was
>not indispensable by any means and all manner of celebraties had already died
>or been lost. Why would the USAAF waste the time and effort to hush up
>Miller's death to the point of hiding or disposing of his body in order to
>claim he was lost over the channel? It would have been easier to write up a
>press release about a traffic accident and bury him in one of the brand new
>military cemeteries in Normandy.
>
>In the end he was only a band leader and there was still a war to be won.
>
>John Dupre'
>

Yeah. I remember that last part.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article >, ArtKramr
> writes
>>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>>From: Peter Twydell
>>Date: 8/27/2004 3:23 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>In article >, ArtKramr
> writes
>>>>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>>>>From: George Ruch
>>>>Date: 8/27/2004 10:36 AM
>>>
>>>>Glen MIller died was that he was strabbed to death
>>>>>in a bistro in a knife fight over a whore.
>>>>
>>>>Rumors, Art? I thought you were above that kind of thing. Well, maybe
>>>>not, considering the political rant you've been on lately.
>>>
>>>These rumors were everywhere in the ETO at the time. They are now part of
>>>history since the true cause of his death was never etsblished. When it was
>>>said he wentt down in the chanell the first question we all asked was who
>>was
>>>the pilot?. No answer. which cast suspicion on the whole story. Those of
>>us
>>>who routinely flew the channel never believed a word of it. .The "hit by a
>>bomb
>>>from above" came later when it was clear nobody was buying that crap. And
>>>Miller was seen around Paris around that time. If you don't like what I
>>write
>>>don't read it. And since you weren't the so screw off.
>>>
>>>.
>>>Arthur Kramer
>>>344th BG 494th BS
>>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>>>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>>>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>>
>>It was an RAF bomber crew member who said he saw a C-64 Norseman going
>>into the channel when the bombs were jettisoned. The pilot was Flight
>>Officer Morgan, John, R.S. Ser. No. T-190776.
>>
>>The problems you might have with this are:
>>(a) the RAF flew sorties, not missions, AFAIK
>>(b) the airman in question might not have been an officer.
>>
>>Research (by people who weren't there at the time) ha
>
>I rest my case.
>
>
>
>
>
>Arthur Kramer
>344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>
QED
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

(ArtKramr) wrote:

>>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>>From: George Ruch
>>Date: 8/27/2004 10:36 AM
>
>>Glen MIller died was that he was strabbed to death
>>>in a bistro in a knife fight over a whore.
>>
>>Rumors, Art? I thought you were above that kind of thing. Well, maybe
>>not, considering the political rant you've been on lately.
>
>These rumors were everywhere in the ETO at the time. They are now part of
>history since the true cause of his death was never etsblished. When it was
>said he wentt down in the chanell the first question we all asked was who was
>the pilot?. No answer. which cast suspicion on the whole story. Those of us
>who routinely flew the channel never believed a word of it. .The "hit by a bomb
>from above" came later when it was clear nobody was buying that crap. And
>Miller was seen around Paris around that time.

If he died as the rumor says, there would probably be a police report of
some kind, witnesses named, etc. Even if the report were classified at the
time, it would almost certainly be declassified by now.

So, both accounts of his death are unprovable with further factual
contemporary evidence.

>If you don't like what I write don't read it. And since you weren't the
>so screw off.

Ah, abuse - the last refuge of the... well, lets drop that.

Good bye, Art. We won't be speaking again for quite a while.

| George Ruch
| "Is there life in Clovis after Clovis Man?"

George Ruch > wrote:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

>>>Glen MIller died was that he was strabbed to death
>>>>in a bistro in a knife fight over a whore.

[...]

>If he died as the rumor says, there would probably be a police report of
>some kind, witnesses named, etc. Even if the report were classified at the
>time, it would almost certainly be declassified by now.
>
>So, both accounts of his death are unprovable with further factual
^^^^
correction: the bistro account

>contemporary evidence.

I don't usually follow up on my own posts, but other information posted in
thus thread supports the lost-in-Channel theory.

| George Ruch
| "Is there life in Clovis after Clovis Man?"

>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>From: Peter Twydell
>Date: 8/27/2004 3:23 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In article >, ArtKramr
> writes
>>>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>>>From: George Ruch
>>>Date: 8/27/2004 10:36 AM
>>
>>>Glen MIller died was that he was strabbed to death
>>>>in a bistro in a knife fight over a whore.
>>>
>>>Rumors, Art? I thought you were above that kind of thing. Well, maybe
>>>not, considering the political rant you've been on lately.
>>
>>These rumors were everywhere in the ETO at the time. They are now part of
>>history since the true cause of his death was never etsblished. When it was
>>said he wentt down in the chanell the first question we all asked was who
>was
>>the pilot?. No answer. which cast suspicion on the whole story. Those of
>us
>>who routinely flew the channel never believed a word of it. .The "hit by a
>bomb
>>from above" came later when it was clear nobody was buying that crap. And
>>Miller was seen around Paris around that time. If you don't like what I
>write
>>don't read it. And since you weren't the so screw off.
>>
>>.


That was in response ot your insult about my " political rants" What goes
around comes around. in this world of two way streets.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:
>
>
> That was in response ot your insult about my " political rants" What goes
> around comes around. in this world of two way streets.
>
> Arthur Kramer


Maybe if you tried the other lane once in a while you could get over
your 'road rage'.

Dave

This site takes another interesting line on the whole thing.

http://www.mishmash.com/glennmiller/

>Subject: Re: Glenn Miller International Festival 2004
>From: (ellay)
>Date: 8/29/2004 2:37 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>This site takes another interesting line on the whole thing.
>
>http://www.mishmash.com/glennmiller/
>


And the mystery goes on.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer