The word on the street seems to be that with a departure clearance
from an uncontrolled airfield of "cleared on course" any ODP would not
need to be flown in VMC. . However, I'm not sure how the FAR quote
below, which also applies to Class C and B airspace, supports that.
Clearly, an ODP is established by the FAA. Anyone?

91.129 Operations in Class D airspace

(g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
airport except in compliance with the following:

(1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
for that airport by the FAA.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...0.1.3.10.2.4.15

Perhaps this thread has been visited recently, and if so, I apologize.

Stan

> wrote:
> The word on the street seems to be that with a departure clearance
> from an uncontrolled airfield of "cleared on course" any ODP would not
> need to be flown in VMC. . However, I'm not sure how the FAR quote
> below, which also applies to Class C and B airspace, supports that.

That applies (as you said) to B, C, and D airspace. It says nothing about
E or G. I think the real answer is in the AIM, which says in section
5-2-6(c)(1) (http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0502.html#5-2-6)

"Obstacle clearance responsibility also rests with the pilot when he/she
chooses to climb in visual conditions in lieu of flying a DP"

Basicly, if a DP/ODP/SID/nom d'jour is assigned, you have to fly it. If
none is assigned at an uncontrolled airport, and there is a DP published,
you have the option of either flying the DP or flying a departure of your
own choice by visual reference.

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote:
>
> That applies (as you said) to B, C, and D airspace.
>

But what about uncontrolled fields in such airspace?

wrote:

> The word on the street seems to be that with a departure clearance
> from an uncontrolled airfield of "cleared on course" any ODP would not
> need to be flown in VMC. . However, I'm not sure how the FAR quote
> below, which also applies to Class C and B airspace, supports that.
> Clearly, an ODP is established by the FAA. Anyone?
>
> 91.129 Operations in Class D airspace
>
> (g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
> airport except in compliance with the following:
>
> (1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
> for that airport by the FAA.
>
> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...0.1.3.10.2.4.15
>
> Perhaps this thread has been visited recently, and if so, I apologize.
>
> Stan

91.129 is not an IFR rule. That language applies to any departure
procedure established for noise abatement at an airport with an operating
control tower. Like a sign at the runway that says "Turn and fly over the
river southbound until leaving 2,300."

> wrote in message ...
>
> 91.129 is not an IFR rule.
>

FAR 91.129 is a General rule, that means it applies to ALL operations.


>
> That language applies to any departure
> procedure established for noise abatement at an airport with an operating
> control tower. Like a sign at the runway that says "Turn and fly over the
> river southbound until leaving 2,300."
>

If that's true, then why does it appear under FAR 91.129(g) Departures and
not under FAR 91.129(h) Noise Abatement?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

> > wrote in message ...
> >
> > 91.129 is not an IFR rule.
> >
>
> FAR 91.129 is a General rule, that means it applies to ALL operations.
>
> >
> > That language applies to any departure
> > procedure established for noise abatement at an airport with an operating
> > control tower. Like a sign at the runway that says "Turn and fly over the
> > river southbound until leaving 2,300."
> >
>
> If that's true, then why does it appear under FAR 91.129(g) Departures and
> not under FAR 91.129(h) Noise Abatement?

Because the left-handed attorney didn't look over the work of the right-handed
attorney.

If you reasoning is correct, then all departures, instrument qualified or not,
would have to fly the IFR ODP.

> wrote in message ...
>
> Because the left-handed attorney didn't look over the work of the
> right-handed
> attorney.
>
> If you reasoning is correct, then all departures, instrument qualified or
> not,
> would have to fly the IFR ODP.
>

Yes, and all because the left-handed attorney didn't look over the work of
the right-handed attorney.

> wrote in message
...
> The word on the street seems to be that with a departure clearance
> from an uncontrolled airfield of "cleared on course" any ODP would not
> need to be flown in VMC. . However, I'm not sure how the FAR quote
> below, which also applies to Class C and B airspace, supports that.
> Clearly, an ODP is established by the FAA. Anyone?
>
> 91.129 Operations in Class D airspace
>
> (g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
> airport except in compliance with the following:
>
> (1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
> for that airport by the FAA.
>
> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...0.1.3.10.2.4.15
>
> Perhaps this thread has been visited recently, and if so, I apologize.
>
> Stan
>

According to the following legal interpretation, one is not required to fly
an instrument departure procedure.

Also, look at 91.129 (b) which allows the controller to authorize a
deviation from the requirements of 91.129.
It would seem to me that a clearance or instruction to proceed on course is
an authorization to deviate from a departure procedure.

In IMC, however, you may not want to deviate from the procedure.

Kris

FAA LEGAL INTERPRETATIONS - 1993
November 30, 1993
Dear Mr. McBride and Mr. Birdsong:

This is in response to your letter of June 30, 1993, in which you request an
interpretation of Section 91.129(f) of the Federal Aviation Regulations
(FAR) (14 CFR Section 91.129 (f)).

Section 91.129(f) states, in part, that no person may operate an aircraft
taking off from an airport with an operating control tower unless he
complies with any departure procedures established for that airport by the
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Instrument Flight Rules (IFR)
departure procedures are established to provide a safe and efficient route
from an airport to the minimum enroute altitude.

The FAA establishes IFR departure procedures in accordance with criteria set
forth in the United States Standard for Terminal Instrument Procedures
(TERPs). IFR departure procedures established under the TERPs are designed
to ensure terrain and obstacle clearance provided a pilot adheres to them.

In your letter, you ask whether a pilot must adhere to an IFR departure
procedure when cleared for takeoff at an airport with a published IFR
departure procedure. You specifically ask whether a pilot is required to
adhere to such a procedure under various operating conditions.

Under Section 91.113(b), when weather conditions permit, a pilot must
operate his aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft regardless of
whether the flight is conducted under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) or under
IFR. However, under Part 91, a pilot generally is not required to adhere to
a published IFR departure procedure. Under Instrument Meteorological
Conditions (IMC), a pilot should, but is not required to, follow an IFR
departure procedure. When outside of radar coverage, however, a pilot
remains responsible for terrain and obstacle clearance.

Furthermore, Section 91.123 provides that a pilot may not deviate from an
Air Traffic Control (ATC) clearance except in an emergency or unless an
amended clearance has been obtained. Accordingly, a pilot operating under
Part 91 must follow an IFR departure procedure when it is part of the
applicable ATC clearance.

Under Part 121 or Part 135, a pilot is required to follow any published IFR
departure procedure regardless of whether the flight is conducted under VMC
or under IMC.

If you have any further questions regarding this matter, please contact
Patricia R. Lane, Manager, Airspace and Air Traffic Law Branch.

Sincerely,

Donald P. Byrne
Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations Division

Note that is limited to IFR departures for Part 121 and 135 operators.

Kris Kortokrax wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
> > The word on the street seems to be that with a departure clearance
> > from an uncontrolled airfield of "cleared on course" any ODP would not
> > need to be flown in VMC. . However, I'm not sure how the FAR quote
> > below, which also applies to Class C and B airspace, supports that.
> > Clearly, an ODP is established by the FAA. Anyone?
> >
> > 91.129 Operations in Class D airspace
> >
> > (g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
> > airport except in compliance with the following:
> >
> > (1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
> > for that airport by the FAA.
> >
> > http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...0.1.3.10.2.4.15
> >
> > Perhaps this thread has been visited recently, and if so, I apologize.
> >
> > Stan
> >
>
> According to the following legal interpretation, one is not required to fly
> an instrument departure procedure.
>
> Also, look at 91.129 (b) which allows the controller to authorize a
> deviation from the requirements of 91.129.
> It would seem to me that a clearance or instruction to proceed on course is
> an authorization to deviate from a departure procedure.
>
> In IMC, however, you may not want to deviate from the procedure.
>
> Kris
>
> FAA LEGAL INTERPRETATIONS - 1993
> November 30, 1993
> Dear Mr. McBride and Mr. Birdsong:
>
> This is in response to your letter of June 30, 1993, in which you request an
> interpretation of Section 91.129(f) of the Federal Aviation Regulations
> (FAR) (14 CFR Section 91.129 (f)).
>
> Section 91.129(f) states, in part, that no person may operate an aircraft
> taking off from an airport with an operating control tower unless he
> complies with any departure procedures established for that airport by the
> Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Instrument Flight Rules (IFR)
> departure procedures are established to provide a safe and efficient route
> from an airport to the minimum enroute altitude.
>
> The FAA establishes IFR departure procedures in accordance with criteria set
> forth in the United States Standard for Terminal Instrument Procedures
> (TERPs). IFR departure procedures established under the TERPs are designed
> to ensure terrain and obstacle clearance provided a pilot adheres to them.
>
> In your letter, you ask whether a pilot must adhere to an IFR departure
> procedure when cleared for takeoff at an airport with a published IFR
> departure procedure. You specifically ask whether a pilot is required to
> adhere to such a procedure under various operating conditions.
>
> Under Section 91.113(b), when weather conditions permit, a pilot must
> operate his aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft regardless of
> whether the flight is conducted under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) or under
> IFR. However, under Part 91, a pilot generally is not required to adhere to
> a published IFR departure procedure. Under Instrument Meteorological
> Conditions (IMC), a pilot should, but is not required to, follow an IFR
> departure procedure. When outside of radar coverage, however, a pilot
> remains responsible for terrain and obstacle clearance.
>
> Furthermore, Section 91.123 provides that a pilot may not deviate from an
> Air Traffic Control (ATC) clearance except in an emergency or unless an
> amended clearance has been obtained. Accordingly, a pilot operating under
> Part 91 must follow an IFR departure procedure when it is part of the
> applicable ATC clearance.
>
> Under Part 121 or Part 135, a pilot is required to follow any published IFR
> departure procedure regardless of whether the flight is conducted under VMC
> or under IMC.
>
> If you have any further questions regarding this matter, please contact
> Patricia R. Lane, Manager, Airspace and Air Traffic Law Branch.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Donald P. Byrne
> Assistant Chief Counsel
> Regulations Division

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:30:55 GMT, wrote:

>The word on the street seems to be that with a departure clearance
>from an uncontrolled airfield of "cleared on course" any ODP would not
>need to be flown in VMC. . However, I'm not sure how the FAR quote
>below, which also applies to Class C and B airspace, supports that.
>Clearly, an ODP is established by the FAA. Anyone?
>
>91.129 Operations in Class D airspace
>
>(g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
>airport except in compliance with the following:
>
>(1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
>for that airport by the FAA.
>
>http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...0.1.3.10.2.4.15
>
>Perhaps this thread has been visited recently, and if so, I apologize.
>
>Stan

Various interpretations have taken that paragraph to apply to noise
abatement types of departure procedures.

Under Part 91, it is the pilot's option as to whether or not to fly an
UNassigned IFR ODP.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

> wrote in message ...
> Note that is limited to IFR departures for Part 121 and 135 operators.
>

Can you elaborate a little? I don't understand what you are trying to tell
me.

Kris

Thanks Kris.
>
>Also, look at 91.129 (b) which allows the controller to authorize a
>deviation from the requirements of 91.129.
>It would seem to me that a clearance or instruction to proceed on course is
>an authorization to deviate from a departure procedure.
>
Yes, does seem to authorize the pilot to forgo the departure procedure
as far as I can see.
>
>Kris
>
>FAA LEGAL INTERPRETATIONS - 1993
>November 30, 1993
>Dear Mr. McBride and Mr. Birdsong:
>

Wow, this is great. Is there a web site with these interpretations?

thanks, Stan