Santa delivered Flight Simulator and a Cyborg joystick this year. I
plan to use it to help maintain instrument currency when I don't have
time for the real thing. I'm finding the learning curve for FS to be a
little steep initially and it is taking a while to get things like the
joystick sensitivity set properly. It was initially WAY too pitch
sensitive compared to any 182 I've ever flown and somewhat sensitive in
roll as well. I haven't yet figured out how to control the rudder so I
can't speak to that. I don't see a joystick control for that, so it
must be on the keyboard somewhere. Also, it seemed to me that FS should
come with enroute and approach plates, however, that doesn't seem to be
the case either. It makes it hard to fly some of the canned routes with
no charts!

Can any of you who are seasoned FS users point me to a forum, newsgroup,
etc. that would be helpful to an FS newbie?


Matt

In article >,
Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>I haven't yet figured out how to control the rudder so I

In FS you assign a control surface to each available joystick axis (rather
than an axis to each control surface). In the axes menu you have to find
the joystick you want and set it up. The default (under the realism
settings) is auto rudder.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

Ben Jackson wrote:

> In article >,
> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>>I haven't yet figured out how to control the rudder so I
>
>
> In FS you assign a control surface to each available joystick axis (rather
> than an axis to each control surface). In the axes menu you have to find
> the joystick you want and set it up. The default (under the realism
> settings) is auto rudder.
>

Thanks, I found that. My joystick doesn't have a spare axis to assign
to the rudder, so I either use the keyboard or don't do slips!
Apparently, some joysticks have a twist axis for rudder assignment, but
it doesn't appear that my Cyborg has that. Just the normal X and Y axis
and the Z axis throttle lever.


Matt

> Thanks, I found that. My joystick doesn't have a spare axis to assign
> to the rudder, so I either use the keyboard or don't do slips!
> Apparently, some joysticks have a twist axis for rudder assignment, but
> it doesn't appear that my Cyborg has that. Just the normal X and Y axis
> and the Z axis throttle lever.

I just auto-coordinate the turns. Otherwise I lost the intended
purpose for *me* where I wanted to concentrate on my scan, setting
up and flying an approach down to minimums. To fly an approach you
don't need to do slips until the last kick out during the flare. At
that point MSFS has done its job.

Gerald

G. Sylvester wrote:
>> Thanks, I found that. My joystick doesn't have a spare axis to assign
>> to the rudder, so I either use the keyboard or don't do slips!
>> Apparently, some joysticks have a twist axis for rudder assignment,
>> but it doesn't appear that my Cyborg has that. Just the normal X and
>> Y axis and the Z axis throttle lever.
>
>
> I just auto-coordinate the turns. Otherwise I lost the intended
> purpose for *me* where I wanted to concentrate on my scan, setting
> up and flying an approach down to minimums. To fly an approach you
> don't need to do slips until the last kick out during the flare. At
> that point MSFS has done its job.

True enough. I was basically just exploring the envelope of FS. It
looks like it will be a pretty good tool for keeping basic IFR
proficiency. I still don't have the joystick adjusted to where it is
realist and lacking force feedback makes a huge difference, but at least
it will help with the scan and basic procedures.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> G. Sylvester wrote:
>lacking force feedback makes a huge difference, but at least it will help
>with the scan and basic procedures.

Agreed. I strongly recommend a force-feedback joystick for MS Flight
Simulator. It makes trimming the plane much more realistic. Rudder pedals,
too, help make the process of flying closer to the real thing. It's
certainly possible to practice IFR procedures without that degree of
realism, but then you have to develop a different style of flying for the
sim (which is the case anyway, but to a much greater degree when you don't
have the extra equipment). I wouldn't want to acquire the habit of making
turns without rudder input.

--Gary

In article >, "G. Sylvester"
> writes:

>I just auto-coordinate the turns. Otherwise I lost the intended
>purpose for *me* where I wanted to concentrate on my scan, setting
>up and flying an approach down to minimums. To fly an approach you
>don't need to do slips until the last kick out during the flare. At
>that point MSFS has done its job.
>

I use FS to fly a new approach for the practice of selecting radios, setting up
the GPS, getting vector values "into the back on my brain", etc. I usually
have the autopilot fly the plane. I don't find that much value in using the
joy stick ( after all my Archer doesn't have one), rudder pedals and such.

Chuck

>It looks like it will be a pretty good tool for keeping basic IFR
proficiency.

Which it is.

> I still don't have the joystick adjusted to where it is realist

And you never will. The sim is always a lot harder to fly than the
real airplane. The aero model can be tweaked for some level of realism
(meaning that the speeds/configurations/power settings you're used to
will work) but control respose will never be right. Force feedback
makes it better, but not good. Making it feel like the real airplane
is not actually impossible, but it's not something you're going to do
with the available resources.

Without the feel of the controls, scan discipline becomes dramatically
more important. You get tremendous tactile feedback through your
airplane's countrols - that's what getting used to the feel of the
airplane really means. Most people will tell you not to fly hard IFR
in an airplane until you've gotten the feel of it, and this is why.
Without that tactile feedback, you can never really tell if your
control application was of the proper magnitude for the deviation.

The lack of tactile feedback makes excellent trim essential; in
practice the trim on most sims is terrible. As a result, you are
always in a state of PIO.

For example, say you're 50 ft high. You apply just a bit of down
pressure. In the real airplane, you hold that pressure for a very long
time - because as you lose the 50 ft, your airspeed increases - which
of course causes the plane to see its trim speed by applying a nose-up
pressure to counter your nose-down pressue. In effect, as long as you
hold constant pressure, the rate of descent, after initially increasing
to the desired value, will decrease. This gives you lots of
opportunity to adjust (maybe remove entirely) the nose-down pressure.
On a sim, especially one with no (or inadequate force feedback, it
doesn't work that way. You apply pressure, and you establish a descent
rate. You think you have plenty of time to deal with this issue (based
on your real airplane experience - it's not even conscious) so you move
on to something else. By the time you come back, you're 50 ft low.
Thus the cardinal rule of sims - the less you do, the better. Shame it
doesn't work for the real airplane.

The true value of a sim is procedural. It's just like chair-flying,
only more realistic - and with the opportunity to be surprised. In
other words, it's of no particular value in practicing the physical
skills of flying, only the mental skills. Fortunately those are the
important ones. For that reason I don't recommend rudder pedals
(auto-coordinated turns are fine), fancy control yokes (joysticks are
fine), throttle quadrants or radio consoles (keyboard/screen is fine).
It's a waste of time to strive for realism, because the one place it
matters (the feel of the controls) it's effectively unattainable. The
sim is for practicing scan and navigation procedures.

Michael

On 29 Dec 2004 13:33:52 -0800, "Michael"
> wrote:

>>It looks like it will be a pretty good tool for keeping basic IFR
>proficiency.
>
>Which it is.
>
>> I still don't have the joystick adjusted to where it is realist
>
>And you never will. The sim is always a lot harder to fly than the
>real airplane. The aero model can be tweaked for some level of realism
>(meaning that the speeds/configurations/power settings you're used to
>will work) but control respose will never be right. Force feedback
>makes it better, but not good. Making it feel like the real airplane
>is not actually impossible, but it's not something you're going to do
>with the available resources.

I've used every version of MSFS back to the Sublogic version 1. There
are things that using the sim can help you with, and some things that
cannot duplicate being in the real airplane. But it is a good resource
for practice.



>important ones. For that reason I don't recommend rudder pedals
>(auto-coordinated turns are fine), fancy control yokes (joysticks are
>fine), throttle quadrants or radio consoles (keyboard/screen is fine).
>It's a waste of time to strive for realism, because the one place it
>matters (the feel of the controls) it's effectively unattainable. The
>sim is for practicing scan and navigation procedures.

I noticed a HUGE difference in realism and application to the real
airplane by having the CH products yoke and rudder pedals. It's like
night and day.

I had a 12 year layoff flying the real thing, and in that time I used
flight sim all along. My transition back to the "real thing" was much
easier. I HIGHLY recommend the yoke and rudder pedals.

I also flew the 737 for much of the time. When I restarted real
flying, a 172 seemed slow and easy compared to the speeds and
procedures I had gotten used to in a simulated 737, especially for IFR
flying, approaches and landing. It's like practicing fast pitch
baseball, then going and playing slow pitch softball. Adjust your
timing, and everthing happens slower and at a manageable pace.