If one learns how to fly single engine and multi engine aircraft in the
airforce at a military flight school, does one automatically get a single
engine, multi engine and commercial license upon graduation? Is this valid
for civilian flying after discharge?

"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote

> If one learns how to fly single engine and multi engine aircraft in
> the airforce at a military flight school, does one automatically get a
> single engine, multi engine and commercial license upon graduation?
> Is this valid for civilian flying after discharge?

Not automatically, one must present log books at an FAA office
and take the "Military Competency" examination, an FAR test of
about 25 questions. I received my Commercial ASMEL-Instrument
certificate via that route. See FAR 61.73 for more details.

Bob Moore

"Bob Moore" > wrote in message
. 7...
> "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote
>
> > If one learns how to fly single engine and multi engine aircraft in
> > the airforce at a military flight school, does one automatically get a
> > single engine, multi engine and commercial license upon graduation?
> > Is this valid for civilian flying after discharge?
>
> Not automatically, one must present log books at an FAA office
> and take the "Military Competency" examination, an FAR test of
> about 25 questions. I received my Commercial ASMEL-Instrument
> certificate via that route. See FAR 61.73 for more details.
>
> Bob Moore

We didn't need to present any logbooks, and there were 65 of us in my class,
so the FAA came to us and gave us the test on base. I'm guessing the FAA
approved our "logbooks" as a result of the USAF showing them our AF records.
However, we didn't get any single engine tickets since we didn't fly a
single engine aircraft in the USAF UPT I went through. Our pilot/instrument
check was in a T-38 so we took the Commercial AMEL written competency exam
and received a Comm/AMEL -Restricted to Centerline Thrust ticket. Later, I
went back to the local FBO and did some flying in a C-150 and took a Private
ASEL test and flight check for that ticket. Still later, I had to take a
checkride in an Apache to get the center line thrust restriction removed
from the Comm/AMEL ticket. Thank goodness for the GI Bill.

JB

Its another step. Some guys don't bother and then lose out when they
get out. There is a limited number of years you have to request an FAA
certificate based on your military. If you don't do it in those years,
you have to do the whole checkride. In anycase, I think you have to
still take the FAA writen.

-Robert


"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message >...
> If one learns how to fly single engine and multi engine aircraft in the
> airforce at a military flight school, does one automatically get a single
> engine, multi engine and commercial license upon graduation? Is this valid
> for civilian flying after discharge?

"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message >...
> If one learns how to fly single engine and multi engine aircraft in the
> airforce at a military flight school, does one automatically get a single
> engine, multi engine and commercial license upon graduation? Is this valid
> for civilian flying after discharge?

No, its not "automatic". An active military pilot has to take a
written test in order to be awarded an equivalent civilian license.
Typically, a newly rated military pilot out of pilot training (USAF)
can take a written FAA test and get a multi-engine commercial license
with instrument rating.
Tim

>If one learns how to fly single engine and multi engine aircraft in the
>airforce at a military flight school, does one automatically get a single
>engine, multi engine and commercial license upon graduation? Is this valid
>for civilian flying after discharge?

I think you have to ask for the ticket. If you do a search for George
W. Bush on the FAA site, you will find that he holds a civilian pilot
certificate, but his medical is not current, and his address is
unknown (!).

Wasn't there just recently a post here by an ex-mil pilot who held a
twin-engine rating but not single engine?

Any certificate is valid, once granted. It's the medical you have to
renew. (BFR, etc.)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

Cub Driver wrote:

>
>>If one learns how to fly single engine and multi engine aircraft in the
>>airforce at a military flight school, does one automatically get a single
>>engine, multi engine and commercial license upon graduation? Is this
>>valid for civilian flying after discharge?
>
> I think you have to ask for the ticket. If you do a search for George
> W. Bush on the FAA site, you will find that he holds a civilian pilot
> certificate, but his medical is not current, and his address is
> unknown (!).

According to the link below:

http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/bush102.htm

Bush's last physical was in May 1971. He refused to take his next scheduled
physical and was grounded and never flew again in the Air National Guard.

Apparently Bush kept flying after his discharge from the Air National Guard.
If you go about 2/3 of the way down on the link above, it talks about Bush
taking Don Evans of Midland (I assume this is the same Don Evans who is now
Commerce Secretary) up for a spin.

Apparently the ride scared the hell out of both of them. From the
information on the FAA database, it appears that Bush was not current in
his phyisical and form the description of the 1976 piloting, it is apparent
Bush did not have recency of experience.

There is a lot about Bush's flying career that is unknown.

>
> Wasn't there just recently a post here by an ex-mil pilot who held a
> twin-engine rating but not single engine?
>
> Any certificate is valid, once granted. It's the medical you have to
> renew. (BFR, etc.)
>
>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>
> The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
> The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
> Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

Part of me wants to become president and stay current flying, just to
have ATC call a C172 "Air Force One"

Cub Driver wrote:

>
> I think you have to ask for the ticket. If you do a search for George
> W. Bush on the FAA site, you will find that he holds a civilian pilot
> certificate, but his medical is not current, and his address is
> unknown (!).
>

Cub Driver > wrote in message >...
> Wasn't there just recently a post here by an ex-mil pilot who held a
> twin-engine rating but not single engine?

a lot of USAF UPT grads will have never flown a single engine
airplane, and when they go to the FSDO for thier tickets they get a
commercial multi+instrument, typically limited to centerline thrust
(no single engine rating). Most of the guys i've talked to just leave
it at that until they retire or go to get thier ATP. If they ever get
checked out in a non-CLT aircraft in the military they can go get the
FSDO to take the restriction off thier ticket, and they can get type
ratings added to it based on thier military experience (only useful if
they are flying the airframes with civil counterparts). When they are
done with thier ATP ride, thier ticket is just Airline Transport Pilot
- Airplane Multi-engine Land, and they wont have single privledges
unless they get military experience in one or take an FAA ride.

Wow, almost word for word. ;-)
JB

"Casey Webster" > wrote in message
m...
> Cub Driver > wrote in message
>...
> > Wasn't there just recently a post here by an ex-mil pilot who held a
> > twin-engine rating but not single engine?
>
> a lot of USAF UPT grads will have never flown a single engine
> airplane, and when they go to the FSDO for thier tickets they get a
> commercial multi+instrument, typically limited to centerline thrust
> (no single engine rating). Most of the guys i've talked to just leave
> it at that until they retire or go to get thier ATP. If they ever get
> checked out in a non-CLT aircraft in the military they can go get the
> FSDO to take the restriction off thier ticket, and they can get type
> ratings added to it based on thier military experience (only useful if
> they are flying the airframes with civil counterparts). When they are
> done with thier ATP ride, thier ticket is just Airline Transport Pilot
> - Airplane Multi-engine Land, and they wont have single privledges
> unless they get military experience in one or take an FAA ride.

>Bush's last physical was in May 1971. He refused to take his next scheduled
>physical and was grounded and never flew again in the Air National Guard.

Wrong, on several accounts.

First, he didn't refuse! Nobody refuses in the military! He didn't
take it because he wasn't in Texas. He *missed* his physical.

Second, the year was 1972.

Third, when he took his last physical in 1973, he was listed as "crew
member on flight status."

The reason he didn't fly a jet fighter in his last two years that the
111th TFS transitioned to a new fighter in 1972. With less than two
years remaining in his hitch, and with a flood of well-trained pilots
released from the Vietnam War, it wasn't worth anyone's time training
him in the new airplane.

www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm

Bush did good. In fact, he did excellent for his first four years in
the Guard, and for a variety of reasons slacked off after that. But he
filled his obligation and a bit more.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

Cub Driver wrote:

>
>>Bush's last physical was in May 1971. He refused to take his next
>>scheduled physical and was grounded and never flew again in the Air
>>National Guard.
>
> Wrong, on several accounts.
>
> First, he didn't refuse! Nobody refuses in the military! He didn't
> take it because he wasn't in Texas. He *missed* his physical.

And I suppose you define AWOL as merely taking a vacation.
>
> Second, the year was 1972.
>
> Third, when he took his last physical in 1973, he was listed as "crew
> member on flight status."

You seem to have information about his physical that no one else has.
The last one of record was in 1971. Would you care to quote someone other
than yourself.

For a COMPLETE time line AND the regulations that applied at the time I
suggest you read the very COMPLETE AND DOCUMENTED link below:

http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm

The author accepts comments, corrections and suggestions and you can contact
him at the email address on the web page. If you have information that he
should include or consider, I suggest you do write to him.

There are just too many coincidences which point to the fact that Bush has a
credibility problem to say the least.

This week we learn his pay records for the time he was supposedly pulling
duty in Alabama have suspiciously been destroyed.

The SEC file on him pertaining to his questionable Harken stock sale have
mysteriously been "Lost"

During or prior to his becoming Governor of Texas, his Texas drivers license
and record was expunged and a new license issued. Hint: In Texas your
criminal record is part of your driver record. Need I say more.

I really don't want to turn this into an off topic debate on this newsgroup
so if you have more to say, please contact me at my email address and also
keep me up to date on your correspondance with the author of the web page I
mentioned.

Thanx
Paul - A disabled two tour Vietnam Veteran - AND a non current private
pilot.

>You seem to have information about his physical that no one else has.
>The last one of record was in 1971. Would you care to quote someone other
>than yourself.

It's all in the public record. He took the physical in 1973; it's
shown even on many of the anti-Bush sites. Every statement on
www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm is documented on the internet with
consistent and persuasive evidence, including photocopies of the
relevant documents.

It wasn't difficult to find; Google did it in a morning. Heck, you can
read the stuff even on the hate sites. It's only that their authors
know so little about the military (Bush refused to take a physical!
Bush had to be ordered to take a weekend of training!) and are so
blinded by partisanship that they can't understand what they have
posted.

Bush did good. He did excellent for his first four years; he did okay
for his last two years. He filled his obligation and served honorably
for longer than most of us were in the military. It's sad that the
Democrats are so filled with hate that they have propagate lies about
good men. I have seen that kind of poison on the far right and far
left for many years; it has now become a staple of the mainstream
Democrats. Too bad.

Note how far their hated for Bill Clinton got the Reublicans! Every
hour you spend in the slime is an hour out of your life.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

Cub Driver wrote:

>
>>You seem to have information about his physical that no one else has.
>>The last one of record was in 1971. Would you care to quote someone other
>>than yourself.
>
> It's all in the public record. He took the physical in 1973; it's
> shown even on many of the anti-Bush sites.

References please.

Please see:
http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm

Bush was suspended from flying in August 1972 for "Failure accomplish annual
medical examination" He did not fly at all after that.

Annual Officer Effectiveness Report, 5/2/73: "Not Observed" from May 1, 1972
to April 30, 1973.

In June of 1973, Air Force HQ asks for more information

....and in November, Major Rufus Martin tells them he has none to give

Where is his flight log? Records from the Flight Inquiry Board? Any
paperwork at all from Alabama? Any DD-24 forms to the local draft board
certifying active status in 1972 or 1973?

Among the ?standards and qualifications? that Bush was required to conform
to was the requirement to maintain his flight status by accomplishing an
annual physical, as well as maintaining the skills and knowledge required
for his AFSC by training as a pilot with his unit.

A Guardsman who failed to meet the requirements was subject to various
punitive measures. Chief among these was an involuntary call to active
duty for up to 24 months.

>> It's all in the public record. He took the physical in 1973; it's
>> shown even on many of the anti-Bush sites.
>
>References please.

Go to www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm

For my own qualifications as a researcher, see Who's Who in America.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

Cub Driver wrote:

>
>>> It's all in the public record. He took the physical in 1973; it's
>>> shown even on many of the anti-Bush sites.
>>
>>References please.
>
> Go to www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm

Insufficient. You claimed MANY sources. Please cite DOCUMENTATION sources
OTHER than your own web page.

>
> For my own qualifications as a researcher, see Who's Who in America.

For your "Qualifications" to have any credibility, you should be able to
quote sources of information OTHER than your own web page. Your
credibility as a "Researcher" is dismal.

Even "All" the information Bush susposedly turned over to the media did NOT
include any physical in 1973. Perhaps you should mail him and the media
your sources - other than your web page.

MOST of us who went through flight training and could afford to fly would
not miss a physical and surrender the opportunity to fly high performance
aircraft - especially if the government were picking up the tab. I am not
current but that is because I can not afford to fly anymore. Bush never
had this problem.

By Bush failing to keep his flight status current he violated his duty and
there are regulations against that. That was pretty darn expensive
training the taxpayers had to pay. It also does not make sense that
someone who took at least some extra effort to get a commercial license out
of the flight training would just walk away from staying current - again
especially since Uncle Sam was paying the bill.

Also please comment on his alleged flying post discharge from the TAG. The
FAA records do not indicate he had an up to date physical at the time.

Dan, just TOO many coincidences - missing military records during THE
critical time interval in the controversy because they were supposedly
destroyed. Microfilm is not that easily destroyed.

Missing SEC files on his Harken stock trading because they supposedly were
"Lost". (His father appointed the SEC commissioners). Even his own
attorney advised against the trade.

Missing Texas drivers record that would have included his criminal record
because he had it expunged and a new license ordered.

Dan, I served TWO involuntary tours in Vietnam. It disgust me that Bush and
those like hime were able to skate and did not even serve ONE tour.
Perhaps if he had, at least one of us who served more than one term would
not have had to go.

It is also disgusting that Bush was able to get into flight training without
the prerequisites that others had to have. He did NOT have ROTC training
and yet was promoted to Lieutenant directly out of Basic training without
going to officer training. He did not have a science degree (He was a
History major) AND he scored one of the lowest possible scores on his exam
to get admitted to flight school. Even after all these breaks, he could
not be bothered to stay current and fulfill his obligation.

Since he will not be 60 when his term of President expires, and since he has
not resigned his commission. maybe he should be recalled back into active
dury in Afghanistan or Iraq. Also, perhaps he - AND all congress people
should have their children enlist and volunteer for duty in Afghanistan or
Iraq.

I do not wish to turn this newsgroup into a political diatribe. I asked a
question and I got my answer. You can email me directly to carry on this
discussion.

"Jim Baker" > wrote in message >...
> Wow, almost word for word. ;-)
> JB
>

thats what i get for not reading all the posts before i reply and
duplicating information :)

"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message
...
> Cub Driver wrote:
>
> >
> >>> It's all in the public record. He took the physical in 1973; it's
> >>> shown even on many of the anti-Bush sites.
> >>
> >>References please.
> >
> > Go to www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm
>
> Insufficient. You claimed MANY sources. Please cite DOCUMENTATION
sources
> OTHER than your own web page.
>
> >
> > For my own qualifications as a researcher, see Who's Who in America.
>
> For your "Qualifications" to have any credibility, you should be able to
> quote sources of information OTHER than your own web page. Your
> credibility as a "Researcher" is dismal.

[snip a bunch of punk remarks]
....
> I do not wish to turn this newsgroup into a political diatribe. I asked a
> question and I got my answer. You can email me directly to carry on this
> discussion.

Now we see why Dan is in the "Who's Who" and Paul isn't. (Clue: He's full
of it)

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

...........

> Now we see why Dan is in the "Who's Who" and Paul isn't. (Clue: He's full
> of it)

Facts, please. Please present the data that Bush took a flight physical in
1973. When an author quotes himself and no others, credibility is missing.