Re: Swift Boat Cowards For Bush: Are They Going To Sink John Kerry?

[OXMORON1]

Osprey wrote:
>His record as a senator is awful.
>He has the highest rating of any senator for not voting.

Hey! That makes him the best at something, and considering his voting record
when he did vote, maybe he did us a favor.
What legislation did Kerry author or co-author and push through until it got a
vote?

Rick Clark

[Matthew G. Saroff]

(OXMORON1) wrote:

>Osprey wrote:
>>His record as a senator is awful.
>>He has the highest rating of any senator for not voting.
>
>Hey! That makes him the best at something, and considering his voting record
>when he did vote, maybe he did us a favor.
>What legislation did Kerry author or co-author and push through until it got a
>vote?

He had 18-24 that became law. More would have come to a
vote and lost.

Figure somewhere in the 20-50 range.

You can search yourself. http://thomas.loc.gov

That's compared with 2 for Cheney, a flood plain bill for
Wyoming, and a favor for his friend in the 12 or 14 years that he
was a congressman.

He also took down the Terrorist's (and the Bush and bin
Laden families) favorite bank in the late 1980s when he dug up
the goods on BCCI and led the charge in the hearings.
--
--Matthew Saroff
_____ * For a succesful technology, *
/ o o \ * reality must take precedence over *
______|_____|_____ * public relations, for Nature *
uuu U uuu * cannot be fooled." *
* - Richard P. Feynman *

[Brett]

"Matthew G. Saroff" > wrote:
> (OXMORON1) wrote:
>
> >Osprey wrote:
> >>His record as a senator is awful.
> >>He has the highest rating of any senator for not voting.
> >
> >Hey! That makes him the best at something, and considering his voting
record
> >when he did vote, maybe he did us a favor.
> >What legislation did Kerry author or co-author and push through until it
got a
> >vote?
>
> He had 18-24 that became law. More would have come to a
> vote and lost.

AP press could only come up with 8 in July 2003:

__Kerry has been the lead sponsor of eight bills that have become law. Two
are related to his work on the Senate panel on oceans and fisheries - a 1994
law to protect marine mammals from being taken during commercial fishing and
a 1991 measure for the National Sea Grant College Program Act, which
finances marine research.
In 1999, President Clinton signed his bill providing grants to support small
businesses owned by women.
The rest of the laws he saw passed were ceremonial - renaming a federal
building, designating Vietnam Veterans Memorial 10th Anniversary Day,
National POW/MIA Recognition Day and World Population Awareness Week in two
separate years.__

[Matthew G. Saroff]

Matthew G. Saroff > wrote:

(OXMORON1) wrote:
>
>>Osprey wrote:
>>>His record as a senator is awful.
>>>He has the highest rating of any senator for not voting.
>>
>>Hey! That makes him the best at something, and considering his voting record
>>when he did vote, maybe he did us a favor.
>>What legislation did Kerry author or co-author and push through until it got a
>>vote?
>
> He had 18-24 that became law. More would have come to a
>vote and lost.
>
> Figure somewhere in the 20-50 range.
>
> You can search yourself. http://thomas.loc.gov
>
> That's compared with 2 for Cheney, a flood plain bill for
>Wyoming, and a favor for his friend in the 12 or 14 years that he
>was a congressman.
>
> He also took down the Terrorist's (and the Bush and bin
>Laden families) favorite bank in the late 1980s when he dug up
>the goods on BCCI and led the charge in the hearings.

That was Kerry, not Cheney, who took down BCCI.
--
--Matthew Saroff
_____ * For a succesful technology, *
/ o o \ * reality must take precedence over *
______|_____|_____ * public relations, for Nature *
uuu U uuu * cannot be fooled." *
* - Richard P. Feynman *

[Matthew G. Saroff]

"Brett" > wrote:

>"Matthew G. Saroff" > wrote:
>
>AP press could only come up with 8 in July 2003:

It's convenient that you ignore his taking Osama (and
Bush's) bank.
--
--Matthew Saroff
_____ * For a succesful technology, *
/ o o \ * reality must take precedence over *
______|_____|_____ * public relations, for Nature *
uuu U uuu * cannot be fooled." *
* - Richard P. Feynman *

[Brett]

"Matthew G. Saroff" > wrote:
> "Brett" > wrote:
>
> >"Matthew G. Saroff" > wrote:
> >
> >AP press could only come up with 8 in July 2003:
>
> It's convenient that you ignore his taking Osama (and
> Bush's) bank.

Preparing a simple report for a senate committee doesn't equal "taking" a
bank and isn't much of an achivement when the scandle broke well before he
took an interest in it.

btw the ties were heavy to Jimmy Carter and people close to him and his
Administration, the Abu Nidal Organization, Abu Nidal lived in Baghdad until
his death and Sheikh Zayed and the ruling family of Abu Dhabi.

So that still leaves Kerry with 8 "do nothing" bills that the AP reported.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Swift Boat Cowards For Bush: Are They Going To Sink John Kerry?
>From: Eris

>Having lived through that era and been of draft age during that era, I
>can positively, absolutely, guarantee that there was a list.
>Does anyone know the name of the individual, who's place Bush took?
>Did he die in Viet Nam?

No. He'll be on 60 minutes this Sunday night.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Swift Boat Cowards For Bush: Are They Going To Sink John Kerry?
>From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
>Date: 9/7/2004 7:14 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: . net>
>
>
>"Eris" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> We were there, all of the NG and reserves were full with long waiting
>> lists. What made the TANG any different?
>>
>
>So you're simply assuming the 147th had a waiting list for pilots?
>
>
>>
>> Why wasn't George activated
>> when he didn't bother to attend meetings.
>>
>
>Probably because he attended them.
>
>
>>
>> Where are his records for that period?
>>
>
>Well, if there are no records, there are no records to show he didn't
>attend.
>
>
>>
>> What idiot goes to a military dentist if he could afford a real one?
>>
>
>Military dentists aren't real? What are they, holograms?


You have obviously never been to a military dentist have you? Or a military
anything for that matter.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Swift Boat Cowards For Bush: Are They Going To Sink John Kerry?
>From: Eris
>Date: 9/7/2004 7:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 02:10:54 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Eris" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> You mean Bush being able to score only in the bottom 25 percentile
>>> after taking the test? None of the men on the "long waiting list"
>>> scored higher? Scoring in the bottom 25 percentile was the lowest
>>> score allowed for acceptance to pilot training.
>>> I suppose that all of the other people on the "long waiting list" had
>>> chemical dependency also?
>>>
>>
>>There was no waiting list.
>>
>And a middle schooler like yourself would know this because...?
>
>

The waiting list was hundreds long.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>
> You have obviously never been to a military dentist have you?
>

I have, several times. A USAF dentist pulled my wisdom teeth. He did a
fine job.


>
> Or a military anything for that matter.
>

You know nothing of the military today. Hell, you know damn little of the
military of the WWII era!

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>There was no waiting list.
>>>
>>And a middle schooler like yourself would know this because...?
>>
>
> The waiting list was hundreds long.
>

You wouldn't know.

[Eris]

On 8 Sep 2004 04:54:03 GMT, Ian MacLure > wrote:

>Eris > wrote in
:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Guard Association of Texas, was quoted in the press as stating: 'There
>> were definately waiting lists. There wasn't any question about
>> that.'..
>
> But were they waiting to make the six year commitment including
> 2 1/2 years on full time active status required of pilots?
> Funny you've never answered this one simple question.
>
> IBM
Yes they were, as I answered before, they were waiting for the Air
force to open some slots for them to send men to Basic Training.
There were no slots available at that time. If you were alive then,
you would have a completely different perspective of this whole era.
Eighteen months of full time commitment was nothing compared to 12
months of hell.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Eris" > wrote in message
...
>
> Yes they were, as I answered before, they were waiting for the Air
> force to open some slots for them to send men to Basic Training.
> There were no slots available at that time.
>

There were four available pilot slots in the 147th FIG in 1968.

[B2431]

>For Bush: Are They Going To Sink John Kerry?
>From: Eris
>Date: 9/8/2004 8:50 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 11:50:44 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Eris" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> http://www.smmirror.com/volume5/issue36/bushs_duty_and.asp
>>> Says that Bush went ahead of 500 men on the 147th Fighter Group
>>> waiting list. The only reason that there were four postions open, was
>>> that they could not get any Air Force Basic Traing slots. for the
>>> people on the waiting list.
>>>
>>> Do your own google search.
>>>
>>
>>I DID my own Google search. That's how I learned there were four openings
>>for pilots in the 147th Fighter Group that year.
>>
>And why were there four openings with a 500 man waiting list. Why were
>there four openings with everyone trying to get into a National Guard
>Unit to avoid going into combat.?

Did it ever occur to you that if there really was a list of 500 trying to get
into TANG that many, if not most, wouldn't be applying for pilot duty and those
that were may not have met basic qualifications?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[OXMORON1]

Steve McNicoll wrote in part:
>There was a waiting list at Group level only due to a difficulty in getting
>slots in basic training. That "difficulty" couldn't have been too bad, as
>the USAF managed to close a basic training base in late 1968.
>

What USAF basic training base was that?

Rick Clark

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"OXMORON1" > wrote in message
...
>
> What USAF basic training base was that?
>

Amarillo AFB. Lackland AFB became the sole USAF basic training base in 1956
when Sampson and Parks AFBs were closed. In early 1966 there was an
outbreak of meningitis at Lackland, so in February the Air Force diverted
incoming recruits to Amarillo for training. It was supposed to be just a
temporary measure, but due to the influx of trainees for the Vietnam
buildup, Amarillo continued basic training until December 1968.

[OXMORON1]

I asked about the USAF training base closed in '68:
>> What USAF basic training base was that?

Steve replied:
>Amarillo AFB. Lackland AFB became the sole USAF basic training base in 1956
snippage..
In early 1966 there was an
>outbreak of meningitis at Lackland, so in February the Air Force diverted
>incoming recruits to Amarillo for training. It was supposed to be just a
>temporary measure, but due to the influx of trainees for the Vietnam
>buildup, Amarillo continued basic training until December 1968.

Thanks, I should have remembered that. A high school classmate of mine died
during basic ( meningitis) about that time.

Rick Clark

[B2431]

>For Bush: Are They Going To Sink John Kerry?
>From: Eris

>Seriously I would vote for Mc Cain in a heartbeat. I and half of
>America would like to see the Pat Roberstons, Jerry Fallwell and
>whatever fundamentalist Jews there are in the Whitehouse, out of the
>Whitehouse for good.

ZOG?

>
>Interesting footnote. Twenty, thirty years ago the Christian
>Fundamentalist hated all Jews with a passion, now they love them with
>a passion. What happened?

They grew up.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired