Radiation hazard?

[Allen Thomson]

While looking for something else in the KZLA NOTAM current as
of Wed, 15 Sep 2004 17:53:00 GMT, I found this interesting
warning:

FDC 4/5471 - CA.. POINT MUGU NAS, CA. RADIATION HAZARD TO
AIRCRAFT EXISTS WITHIN A 1.5 NM RADIUS OF 340555N/1190700W.
THE AREA IS HOT CONTINIOUSLY FROM SFC TO 8000 FT AGL.
AIRCRAFT WISHING TO TRANSIT THE AREA SHOULD CONTACT THE
APPROPRIATE ATC AGENCY FOR THE STATUS OF THE AREA PRIOR TO
ENTRY OR TRANSIT. WIE UNTIL UFN

I assume the "radiation hazard" is some sort of RF emanation
that could mess up on-board electronics, but the extremely
short range is curious. Street Atlas 2005 shows the coordinates
as lying west of the intersection of Beach Road and 19th Street
in Pacific Missile Test Range facilities, Port Hueneme.

Any idea what this hazard might actually be?

[Andrew C. Toppan]

On 15 Sep 2004 11:18:24 -0700, (Allen Thomson)
wrote:

>I assume the "radiation hazard" is some sort of RF emanation
>that could mess up on-board electronics, but the extremely

It means a radar. Range relates to power and the rate at which it
decreases with distance. For example....if I stand in front of an
Aegis radar during a pierside test at sufficiently high power, I'm
toasted. But that same radar is radiating across streets and bridges
and houses a mile or two distant, without ill effect.

--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/

[Bob Coe]

Probably multiple hazards, as they have multiple radar systems there.



"Allen Thomson" > wrote
>
> Any idea what this hazard might actually be?

[Denyav]

>It means a radar. Range relates to power and the rate at which it
>decreases with distance. For example....if I stand in front of an
>Aegis radar during a pierside test at sufficiently high power, I'm
>toasted. But that same radar is radiating across streets and bridges
>and houses a mile or two distant,

It might or might not be a radar.
If they are using some forms of localized waves as energy carrier (not very
likely today though) you can get toasted even if you were thousands miles away
from the emitter.

[John Szalay]

Denyav wrote:
>>It means a radar. Range relates to power and the rate at which it
>>decreases with distance. For example....if I stand in front of an
>>Aegis radar during a pierside test at sufficiently high power, I'm
>>toasted. But that same radar is radiating across streets and bridges
>>and houses a mile or two distant,
>
>
> It might or might not be a radar.
> If they are using some forms of localized waves as energy carrier (not very
> likely today though) you can get toasted even if you were thousands miles away
> from the emitter.


Also could be a Laser. there is a site also in Calif. where a laser
is being projected straight up for a study. cannot remember the exact
location or the details of study. but I looked it up when I heard about
it. and it also shows on the charts as a hazard/restricted fly zone..
been a few years.. think it was around mono lake. ?

[Qman]

Denyav wrote:

> If they are using some forms of localized waves as energy carrier (not very
> likely today though) you can get toasted even if you were thousands miles away
> from the emitter.

May I ask... what the heck are you talking about? What's "localized
waves as energy carrier"?


Qman

[Denyav]

>> If they are using some forms of localized waves as energy carrier (not very
>> likely today though) you can get toasted even if you were thousands miles
>away
>> from the emitter.
>
>May I ask... what the heck are you talking about? What's "localized
>waves as energy carrier"?
>
>
>Qman

Please check out US Patent Nr.:4959559
Patent holder: US Gov't
Patent is based mainly on Kiolkowskis' work.
(This patent itself could be subject of a nasty international patent
infringement lawsuit,but that is another story)

[stop spam]

Denyav wrote:
>>>If they are using some forms of localized waves as energy carrier (not very
>>>likely today though) you can get toasted even if you were thousands miles away from the emitter.
>>May I ask... what the heck are you talking about? What's "localized
>>waves as energy carrier"?
>>Qman
> Please check out US Patent Nr.:4959559


If you actually bother to read the patent Denyav quotes (see
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4959559.WKU.&OS=PN/4959559&RS=PN/4959559),
you'll find that the author claims a significant jump in the ability to
extend his "energy carrier waves".

The patent jumps the maximim distance from:
"50 cm, about 2 L.sub.R" (bottom of document, 6 paragraphs from end)
to
"10 m is obtained which is more than 30 L.sub.R." (bottom of document, 4
paragraphs from end)

or, in other words, his patent allows you to increase its range by a
factor of 20 - impressive.

Unfortunately, even the new, improved effective range of 10 m doesn't
buy you much in the real world.

Nice try, Denyav (who, of course, will try to claim that's just to hide
the real range).

[Denyav]

>Unfortunately, even the new, improved effective range of 10 m doesn't
>buy you much in the real world.
>
>Nice try, Denyav (who, of course, will try to claim that's just to hide
>the real range).

Yeah right,I guess you now the difference between lab experiments and real
world.
The set up described is the initial proof of concept lab set up.

Crucial word in this patent is 20 times increase in range,that means without
localization range of this lab set up would be only 0,5 meter.
So basicaly with localization you increase the range of a system from 0,5 m to
10 meters this is a big jump in range.


So I think even you could figure out what would be ranges of real world systems
with ranges 600-1000 miles with localization effects.(Plus with GW and even TW
level powers)

BTW after 1990 even more exotic localized waves detected and some of them are
inherently superluminal and do not effected by medium discontiniuties.

Today US and other nations hundreds of billions dollar each year on HPM weapon
development and ALL US HPM weapon devolopment is black.
I guess you think that so much money and secrecy is only to develop something
that could only reach 10 meters away.
If you want to kill something 10 meters away you dont need so nuch money and
secrecy as a hand pistol would do the job perfectly.

Today an EM missille launcher stationed in NM could engage a submerged
submarine off Australia if scientists could only find out how to precisely
control such waves.
Far cry from 10 meters achieved under Lab.conditions in 80s.

[stop spam]

Denyav wrote:
>>Unfortunately, even the new, improved effective range of 10 m doesn't
>>buy you much in the real world.
>>
>>Nice try, Denyav (who, of course, will try to claim that's just to hide
>>the real range).
> Yeah right,I guess you now the difference between lab experiments and real
> world.
> The set up described is the initial proof of concept lab set up.

Yep. The difference is most lab demos never make it into the real world.
Which is why 90+% of all patents never make it into production.

> Crucial word in this patent is 20 times increase in range,that means without
> localization range of this lab set up would be only 0,5 meter.
> So basicaly with localization you increase the range of a system from 0,5 m to
> 10 meters this is a big jump in range.

Yep, a factor of 20 as I said.

> So I think even you could figure out what would be ranges of real world systems

10 meters.

> Today US and other nations hundreds of billions dollar each year on HPM weapon

I assume you meant to insert the word "spend" in that sentence.

The US couldn't hide that level of expenditures on a single project,
even in black programs.

Although I guess they could hide it the same place they keep all the
black helicopters and the Aliens From Another World®

> I guess you think that so much money and secrecy is only to develop something
> that could only reach 10 meters away.

No, I think this is yet another one of your crypto-conspiracy whacko
stories you continue to delude yourself with.

> Today an EM missille launcher stationed in NM could engage a submerged
> submarine off Australia if scientists could only find out how to precisely
> control such waves.

So now your wonder uber-weapon can be fired through the Earth itself and
hit something on the other side without interacting with the Earth
in-between. Sure. Or does it also have the magical power to just bend
itself around the Earth to strike something on the other side?

Nor will we discuss how an "EM" weapon is a "missille" [sic].

[Denyav]

>> So I think even you could figure out what would be ranges of real world
>systems
>
>10 meters.
>
Which demonstrate 20 times range improvement over conventional systems
in lab and a quarter century ago.
Do you know how far and how high Wright brothers plane flew?
How far and how high planes were able to fly a quarter century after the first
flight?>The US couldn't hide that level of expenditures on a single project,
>even in black programs.
>
>Although I guess they could hide it the same place they keep all the
>black helicopters and the Aliens From Another World®

All HPM project(S) are black and there are several of them.period.
Something that you cannot see anywhere else.

>No, I think this is yet another one of your crypto-conspiracy whacko
>stories you continue to delude yourself with.

Fortunately HPM weapon devolopment does not depend on what tou think and you
might be surprised but they are even operational,albeit as tectotic and
climatic weapons,the areas that do not need precise control.
>So now your wonder uber-weapon can be fired through the Earth itself and
>hit something on the other side without interacting with the Earth
>in-between.

You got that right finally I gave the submerged submarine off Australia example
for a reason.Some forms,not all only some of them,do not travel in a medium in
conventional sense,the are created in some point and "recovered" in another
point.
So some forms of localized waves ,not a suitable term but what else could I
use, the travel of them are totally independent of the medium or
discontinitues of the medium.

>bend
>itself around the Earth to strike something on the other side?
>

No,they do not bend they are produced somewhere and "recovered" in another
place.Recovery location (target) must be defined during creation of
superluminal
wave.(Currently hardest part of the development both theoretically and
technologically)

>Nor will we discuss how an "EM" weapon is a "missille" [sic].
>

DOE (Lawrence-Livermore) patented process involves the use of luminal waves
and they are inherently line of sight.
But today over 100 different forms of localized waves known to exist,big
majority are luminal but there are some superluminal ones.
Heck,between 1945 and 1983 nobody knew even one form of localized waves.


Currently they are widely used as tectonic and climatic weapons .period.