Typical speeds on a low altitude flight?

[Bjørnar Bolsøy]

I saw this video of some Swiss Airforce Mirages playing about
between mountains and lakes and was wondering about that the
typical speed would be for such manoeuvres?



Regards...

[Ed Rasimus]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:00:31 GMT, "Bjørnar Bolsøy"
> wrote:

>
>I saw this video of some Swiss Airforce Mirages playing about
>between mountains and lakes and was wondering about that the
>typical speed would be for such manoeuvres?
>

Depends upon the tactical mission. If the mission were air/air, then
the speed would be something a little bit above corner velocity for
the aircraft (corner is the min indicated airspeed to generate maximum
allowable G). If the mission were ground attack with a TOT then it's
likely to be a ground speed that is a multiple of 60--that translates
quickly into miles/minute for easy navigation calculations.

Of course with GPS and continual update nav displays that sort of
mental gymnastic is increasingly unnecessary. Then revert to first
speed--just above corner.

All that means the Mirages were probably running around in the 400-450
knot range. "Dancing the sky on laughter-silvered wings...."



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

[Cub Driver]

>I saw this video of some Swiss Airforce Mirages playing about
>between mountains and lakes and was wondering about that the
>typical speed would be for such manoeuvres?

When I see an A-10 Warthog at 2,500 feet, my eyeballs swivel for his
partner (they always seem to travel in paris) on the assumption that
he is making 250 knots.

(Or perhaps "she". I wonder if I have ever encountered Killer Chick on
her Warthoggy rounds?)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com

[Cub Driver]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:54:06 -0600, Ed Rasimus
> wrote:

> If the mission were ground attack with a TOT then it's
>likely to be a ground speed that is a multiple of 60--that translates
>quickly into miles/minute for easy navigation calculations.

It has always pleased me that with INS and all that stuff, that
tactical pilots use the identical groundspeed/distance measure that I
do.

The only difference is that I don't need to multiply :)

My other bit of pilotage is the two-knuckle rule: the outside knuckles
on my index and middle fingers = ten nautical miles = six minutes.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
Cub Driver > writes:
>
>>I saw this video of some Swiss Airforce Mirages playing about
>>between mountains and lakes and was wondering about that the
>>typical speed would be for such manoeuvres?
>
> When I see an A-10 Warthog at 2,500 feet, my eyeballs swivel for his
> partner (they always seem to travel in paris) on the assumption that
> he is making 250 knots.

Tactical aircraft are like Nuns - they always travel in pairs.
If you're out at dusk, and you see a set of flashing Nav Lights - (Not
the blinking beacons, but the Red/Green/White wingtip & aft lights, look
ahead for another with his/her lights on Steady Dim. You'll generally
see the wingman first, but it's good to know where the lead is, too.

>
> (Or perhaps "she". I wonder if I have ever encountered Killer Chick on
> her Warthoggy rounds?)

I was just up under Yankee 2 last week. There seemed to be an
inordinate number of F-16s. Usually it's A-18s adn Marine Reserve
F-18s.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[Ed Rasimus]

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 06:15:08 -0400, Cub Driver
> wrote:

>
>>I saw this video of some Swiss Airforce Mirages playing about
>>between mountains and lakes and was wondering about that the
>>typical speed would be for such manoeuvres?
>
>When I see an A-10 Warthog at 2,500 feet, my eyeballs swivel for his
>partner (they always seem to travel in paris) on the assumption that
>he is making 250 knots.

Excellent observation. Tactical aircraft (much like the Guardia Civil
in Spain) are never alone. And, as I've repeated so often in this
forum, that very basic fact complicates all discussions of which
aircraft is "superior" in a dog-fight.
>
>(Or perhaps "she". I wonder if I have ever encountered Killer Chick on
>her Warthoggy rounds?)

If not KC, then there's probably about a 1-in-5 chance that one of the
pair is female.

Right now I'm pondering my next book project and am seriously into
initial planning for an oral history compilation of the integration
and acceptance of women in the tactical aviation community.

One source started as an F-15E WSO with combat in Kosovo, now has gone
through pilot training and is driving Vipers in my old squadron, the
421st TFS at Hill AFB. She is highly regarded by a lot of the male
chauvinist pigs in the profession. Another former F-15E WSO is married
to a Mud Hen front seater and both are stationed outside my back door
at USAFA. They flew in Desert Storm--he has told me that almost one
third of his missions were flown with a "wing-woman."

I think the story hasn't yet been told and there would be a lot of
interest.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org