Crazy Buy of the Week

[Brian Whatcott]

Wondering round the dimly lit used-goods store and there it was - a 40
cu ft nitrogen bottle. The store was in a closing down sale so the
price was right - for a current bottle and regulator.

But then of course, there was the little matter of a coiled air line, an
air chuck, a gas refill ($25), swapping the adapter to 1/4 inch pipe,
adding a quick connect, sketching out a 2 wheel trolley and buying a
pair of wheels etc., etc...

And the funny thing is: I know plane tires are often nitrogen filled,
but I can't imagine why. The bottled gas man said there is a growing
market for nitrogen from the local car dealers too. And that seems even
more unlikely.
Perhaps I'm biased - but I watched the Myth-busters doing their worst to
set a tire on fire, up to and including pouring gasoline over it
while making smoke with a muscle car - and failing!

Moreover, I have replaced at least one tire with perfectly usable tread
left: the Dallas ozone cracked the external case like you wouldn't believe.

Still, a toy is a toy.....

Merry Christmas!

Brian Whatcott
Altus OK

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Dec 21, 7:39*pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
>
> And the funny thing is: I know plane tires are often nitrogen filled,
> but I can't imagine why. The bottled gas man said there is a growing
> market for nitrogen from the local car dealers too. And that seems even
> more unlikely.
> Perhaps I'm biased - but I watched the Myth-busters doing their worst to
> set a tire on fire, up to and including pouring gasoline over it
> while making smoke with a muscle car - and failing!
>
> Merry Christmas!
>
> Brian Whatcott
> Altus OK

Aircraft tires are usually filled with nitrogen, as on the big stuff,
the tire pressure is often well above 100 psi. Combined with big
volumes of air, and brakes that can be glowing cherry red (if not even
dripping a little metal every now and then), if one of them babies
lets go, you will have one heck of a fire in no time. If you add to
this the possiblity of a ruptured tire taking out a brake line and
spewing hydraulic fluid onto the brake along with air (oxygen) under
pressure, well, you can guess what will happen. So, the reason for
Nitrogen in aircraft tires is to remove the oxidizer from near the
ignition source, as even the roughly 20% oxygen in the air we compress
is enough to fuel a big fire on aircraft brakes.

On the other hand, that muscle car has big tires, and low pressure. I
seem to recall that the top fuel racers are running between 3 and 5
psi in their slicks. Big volume, but not much flow if one lets go.
The rubber on the tire melts at way below the ignition temperature, so
that is probably why the Myth Busters couldn't get it to catch fire.

So, why nitrogen for car tires? Easy Money. I tell you that if I
fill your tires with Nitrogen, it won't leak out as fast as air, so
you will get better gas mileage, and it will only cost you $45 for me
to do it, many will pay that $45. And since I am filling from a big
bottle that it costs me $25 to re-fill, and I can service probably 15
cars at $45 each, I can bring in $675 from a $25 re-curring cost, it
won't take me long to pay for my cart and be bringing in one of the
highest profit margins I have seen in a LONG time.

I will stick with the 78% nitrogen I get from my air compressor for my
tires.

Oh, yeah. And since Nitrogen is an inert gas, meaning it doesn't
support combustion, why do you think Shell is advertising "Nitrogen
Enriched Gasoline" to improve your mileage and increase the life of
your engine? You want to put something that won't burn in my gas, and
tell me you are doing a good thing? "Yes sir" he said with a smile on
his face.

Maybe DG can sell nitrogen for their tires? :-)

Steve Leonard
Wichita, KS

[Tony V]

Steve Leonard wrote:
And since Nitrogen is an inert gas, meaning it doesn't
> support combustion,


At the risk if being pedantic, that is not what inert gas means and
nitrogen is far from being inert. An inert gas is one that is
(essentially) chemically non-reactive like helium, argon, etc. Nitrogen
is easily reactive with NO2 possibly being the best known nitrogen compound.


> Maybe DG can sell nitrogen for their tires? :-)

Yeah, maybe someone should give them a call. LOL!

Tony V. LS6-b

[Richard[_9_]]

On Dec 21, 6:35*pm, Steve Leonard > wrote:
> On Dec 21, 7:39*pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
>
>
>
> > And the funny thing is: I know plane tires are often nitrogen filled,
> > but I can't imagine why. The bottled gas man said there is a growing
> > market for nitrogen from the local car dealers too. And that seems even
> > more unlikely.
> > Perhaps I'm biased - but I watched the Myth-busters doing their worst to
> > set a tire on fire, up to and including pouring gasoline over it
> > while making smoke with a muscle car - and failing!
>
> > Merry Christmas!
>
> > Brian Whatcott
> > Altus OK
>
> Aircraft tires are usually filled with nitrogen, as on the big stuff,
> the tire pressure is often well above 100 psi. *Combined with big
> volumes of air, and brakes that can be glowing cherry red (if not even
> dripping a little metal every now and then), if one of them babies
> lets go, you will have one heck of a fire in no time. *If you add to
> this the possiblity of a ruptured tire taking out a brake line and
> spewing hydraulic fluid onto the brake along with air (oxygen) under
> pressure, well, you can guess what will happen. *So, the reason for
> Nitrogen in aircraft tires is to remove the oxidizer from near the
> ignition source, as even the roughly 20% oxygen in the air we compress
> is enough to fuel a big fire on aircraft brakes.
>
> On the other hand, that muscle car has big tires, and low pressure. *I
> seem to recall that the top fuel racers are running between 3 and 5
> psi in their slicks. *Big volume, but not much flow if one lets go.
> The rubber on the tire melts at way below the ignition temperature, so
> that is probably why the Myth Busters couldn't get it to catch fire.
>
> So, why nitrogen for car tires? *Easy Money. *I tell you that if I
> fill your tires with Nitrogen, it won't leak out as fast as air, so
> you will get better gas mileage, and it will only cost you $45 for me
> to do it, many will pay that $45. *And since I am filling from a big
> bottle that it costs me $25 to re-fill, and I can service probably 15
> cars at $45 each, I can bring in $675 from a $25 re-curring cost, it
> won't take me long to pay for my cart and be bringing in one of the
> highest profit margins I have seen in a LONG time.
>
> I will stick with the 78% nitrogen I get from my air compressor for my
> tires.
>
> Oh, yeah. *And since Nitrogen is an inert gas, meaning it doesn't
> support combustion, why do you think Shell is advertising "Nitrogen
> Enriched Gasoline" to improve your mileage and increase the life of
> your engine? *You want to put something that won't burn in my gas, and
> tell me you are doing a good thing? *"Yes sir" he said with a smile on
> his face.
>
> Maybe DG can sell nitrogen for their tires? *:-)
>
> Steve Leonard
> Wichita, KS

If you buy your auto tires at Costco they fill with nitrogen and put a
nice green cap on the filler.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Dec 22, 8:33*am, Tony V > wrote:
>
> At the risk if being pedantic, that is not what inert gas means and
> nitrogen is far from being inert. An inert gas is one that is
> (essentially) chemically non-reactive like helium, argon, etc. Nitrogen
> is easily reactive with NO2 possibly being the best known nitrogen compound.
>
> > Maybe DG can sell nitrogen for their tires? *:-)
>
> Yeah, maybe someone should give them a call. LOL!
>
> Tony V. LS6-b

My bad, Tony. Inert is non-reactive, not "doesn't support
combustion".

But, I will still stick with my 78% nitrogen fill in my tires and
regular checking of the pressure.

Steve

[Brian Whatcott]

Richard wrote:
>
>
> If you buy your auto tires at Costco they fill with nitrogen and put a
> nice green cap on the filler.
>
> Richard
> www.craggyaero.com

On the other hand, if you should fix a slow leak on your car with some
of the fix a flat goo cans, the propellant gas is butane or propane.
They thoughtfully provide a wheel sticker to warn your mechanic to
take care when removing the case after using the product though....

Brian W

[Eric Greenwell]

Tony V wrote:
> Steve Leonard wrote:
> And since Nitrogen is an inert gas, meaning it doesn't
>> support combustion,
>
>
> At the risk if being pedantic, that is not what inert gas means and
> nitrogen is far from being inert. An inert gas is one that is
> (essentially) chemically non-reactive like helium, argon, etc.
> Nitrogen is easily reactive with NO2 possibly being the best known
> nitrogen compound.
That was what I thought, too, until I did a little research. According
to Wikipedia and the dictionary I consulted, Nitrogen is inert, as the
N-N bond in N2 is very strong. It is not a noble gas like helium, of
course. I think it is an error to say nitrogen (N2) is easily reactive.
NO2 is a strong oxidizer because the N-O bond is weak, but NO2 isn't N2.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

[Brian Whatcott]

>> Steve Leonard wrote:
>>> ...Nitrogen is an inert gas, meaning it doesn't
>>> support combustion,
>>
[Tony V]
>> At the risk if being pedantic, that is not what inert gas means and
>> nitrogen is far from being inert. An inert gas is one that is
>> (essentially) chemically non-reactive like helium, argon, etc.
>> Nitrogen is easily reactive with NO2 possibly being the best known
>> nitrogen compound.

[Eric Greenwell]
> That was what I thought, too, until I did a little research. According
> to Wikipedia and the dictionary I consulted, Nitrogen is inert, as the
> N-N bond in N2 is very strong. It is not a noble gas like helium, of
> course. I think it is an error to say nitrogen (N2) is easily reactive.
> NO2 is a strong oxidizer because the N-O bond is weak, but NO2 isn't N2.
>

Offering a middle way, Enc Brit (14th Ed.) mentions this:
"nitrogen gas is somewhat inert since the heat of dissociation of the
nitrogen molecule into atoms is large, but it can unite directly under
certain circumstances with several elements, including hydrogen,
oxygen, boron, silicon, lithium, magnesium, calcium, barium, titanium,
vanadium, tantalum, tungsten and manganese...."

Brian W

[Mike[_28_]]

I prefer to fill my slowly leaking cars tires with N2O. I can't
explain it but it makes for a much more pleasant ride.

Mike

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:18:27 -0600, brian whatcott wrote:

>>> Steve Leonard wrote:
>>>> ...Nitrogen is an inert gas, meaning it doesn't
>>>> support combustion,
>>>
> [Tony V]
>>> At the risk if being pedantic, that is not what inert gas means and
>>> nitrogen is far from being inert. An inert gas is one that is
>>> (essentially) chemically non-reactive like helium, argon, etc.
>>> Nitrogen is easily reactive with NO2 possibly being the best known
>>> nitrogen compound.
>
> [Eric Greenwell]
>> That was what I thought, too, until I did a little research. According
>> to Wikipedia and the dictionary I consulted, Nitrogen is inert, as the
>> N-N bond in N2 is very strong. It is not a noble gas like helium, of
>> course. I think it is an error to say nitrogen (N2) is easily reactive.
>> NO2 is a strong oxidizer because the N-O bond is weak, but NO2 isn't
>> N2.
>>
>>
> Offering a middle way, Enc Brit (14th Ed.) mentions this: "nitrogen gas
> is somewhat inert since the heat of dissociation of the nitrogen
> molecule into atoms is large, but it can unite directly under certain
> circumstances with several elements, including hydrogen, oxygen, boron,
> silicon, lithium, magnesium, calcium, barium, titanium, vanadium,
> tantalum, tungsten and manganese...."
>
To be specific, lets look at the Haber Process, which is the basis of
nitrogenous fertiliser manufacture. It combines hydrogen with nitrogen
from the atmosphere. This reaction requires temperatures between 300 -
550C at pressures of 150 - 250 atmospheres and only takes place over an
iron oxide catalyst.

Silicon carbide is made by reacting nitrogen with silicon, but it only
reacts at 1300-1400 C.

That looks like a pretty inert, or non-reactive if you prefer, gas to me.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Brian Whatcott]

Mike wrote:
> I prefer to fill my slowly leaking cars tires with N2O. I can't
> explain it but it makes for a much more pleasant ride.
>
> Mike

Puts a smile on your face?

Brian W

[Brian Whatcott]

Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> /snip/ Enc Brit (14th Ed.) mentions this: "nitrogen gas
>> is somewhat inert since the heat of dissociation of the nitrogen
>> molecule into atoms is large, but it can unite directly under certain
>> circumstances with several elements, including hydrogen, oxygen, boron,
>> silicon, lithium, magnesium, calcium, barium, titanium, vanadium,
>> tantalum, tungsten and manganese...."
>>
> To be specific, lets look at the Haber Process, which is the basis of
> nitrogenous fertiliser manufacture. It combines hydrogen with nitrogen
> from the atmosphere. This reaction requires temperatures between 300 -
> 550C at pressures of 150 - 250 atmospheres and only takes place over an
> iron oxide catalyst.
>
> Silicon carbide is made by reacting nitrogen with silicon, but it only
> reacts at 1300-1400 C.
>
> That looks like a pretty inert, or non-reactive if you prefer, gas to me.
>
>
Electric arc welding methods used to rejoice in names like ArgonArc and
Heliarc, for reasons that will be clear.

But Nitrogen can be and is used as a weld shield gas for some purposes.

Brian W