Fiberglass Wing Cuff

[vontresc]

Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The
question I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how
many layers would be required.

Thanks

Pete

[sisu1a]

>So far my plan
> was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy.


While West Systems is fine epoxy and all, if you can get real aircraft
resin/hardener is it MUCH nicer to work with. The L285 system is the
nicest stuff I've ever worked with and kinda smells like pretzels when
it's mixed and even again later when sanded. Of course if you actually
*like the smell and toxicity of highly outgassy boat resin than have a
ball!

Sorry to not answer your question, I nearly always wind up picking the
hardest way to do stuff and want to hear the other opines too...

-Paul

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Thu, 13 May 2010 08:07:51 -0700, vontresc wrote:

> Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
> last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
> sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
> was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The question
> I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how many layers
> would be required.
>
Don't forget to put overwide carpet or felt on the wing first, then the
release film and lay up the glass over that.

IMO you could do a lot worse than give CST a call, tell them what you're
doing and ask what glasscloth/chopped strand mat, release film and epoxy
they'd recommend. They sell Pro-set, MGS and West systems epoxy.

Look at and measure wing cuffs at your local field to get a feel for how
wide the cuff needs to be and how thick you'll need to make it before you
talk to them, or any other supplier for that matter. Talk to the owners
to find out what they'd want to change if they replaced their wing cuffs.

CST are at Tehachapi: http://www.cstsales.com/

If you speak to Matt or Gail tell them I sent you. Matt is a keen model
flyer and got into selling composite materials through sourcing them to
build his competition models. They later branched out into supplying the
custom car folks and Hollywood film set builders, so they will understand
making things the size of wing cuffs.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregori
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Grider Pirate]

On May 13, 9:56*am, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> On Thu, 13 May 2010 08:07:51 -0700, vontresc wrote:
> > Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
> > last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
> > sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
> > was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The question
> > I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how many layers
> > would be required.
>
> Don't forget to put overwide carpet or felt on the wing first, then the
> release film and lay up the glass over that.
>
> IMO you could do a lot worse than give CST a call, tell them what you're
> doing and ask what glasscloth/chopped strand mat, release film and epoxy
> they'd recommend. They sell Pro-set, MGS and West systems epoxy.
>
> Look at and measure wing cuffs at your local field to get a feel for how
> wide the cuff needs to be and how thick you'll need to make it before you
> talk to them, or any other supplier for that matter. Talk to the owners
> to find out what they'd want to change if they replaced their wing cuffs.
>
> CST are at Tehachapi:http://www.cstsales.com/
>
> If you speak to Matt or Gail tell them I sent you. Matt is a keen model
> flyer and got into selling composite materials through sourcing them to
> build his competition models. They later branched out into supplying the
> custom car folks and Hollywood film set builders, so they will understand
> making things the size of wing cuffs.
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregori
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |

While I use the MGS epoxies for repair work, I wouldn't spend the big
bucks for it to make wing cuffs. Wayne Paul sent me a link (which I
will try to find when I get home tonight) for an outfit in Florida
that sells epoxies that are about 1/3 the price of the MGS epoxy.
They also sell the super thick/coarse glass cloth and mat that you
will want to use. See Wayne's article on the SoarIdaho site under the
Scheder gliders section. He constructs a tail dolly for his glider,
and many of the techniques are applicable to your (vastly simpler)
wing cuffs.

[mike]

On May 13, 11:14*am, Grider Pirate > wrote:
> On May 13, 9:56*am, Martin Gregorie >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 13 May 2010 08:07:51 -0700, vontresc wrote:
> > > Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
> > > last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
> > > sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
> > > was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The question
> > > I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how many layers
> > > would be required.
>
> > Don't forget to put overwide carpet or felt on the wing first, then the
> > release film and lay up the glass over that.
>
> > IMO you could do a lot worse than give CST a call, tell them what you're
> > doing and ask what glasscloth/chopped strand mat, release film and epoxy
> > they'd recommend. They sell Pro-set, MGS and West systems epoxy.
>
> > Look at and measure wing cuffs at your local field to get a feel for how
> > wide the cuff needs to be and how thick you'll need to make it before you
> > talk to them, or any other supplier for that matter. Talk to the owners
> > to find out what they'd want to change if they replaced their wing cuffs.
>
> > CST are at Tehachapi:http://www.cstsales.com/
>
> > If you speak to Matt or Gail tell them I sent you. Matt is a keen model
> > flyer and got into selling composite materials through sourcing them to
> > build his competition models. They later branched out into supplying the
> > custom car folks and Hollywood film set builders, so they will understand
> > making things the size of wing cuffs.
>
link for glass and epoxy

http://www.uscomposites.com/

Use it for all of my sailplane misc stuff like wing and tail dollies
etc.

Good company.




> > --
> > martin@ * | Martin Gregori
> > gregorie. | Essex, UK
> > org * * * |
>
> While I use the MGS epoxies for repair work, I wouldn't spend the big
> bucks for it to make wing cuffs. Wayne Paul sent me a link (which I
> will try to find when I get home tonight) for an outfit in Florida
> that sells epoxies that are about 1/3 the price of the MGS epoxy.
> They also sell the super thick/coarse glass cloth and mat that you
> will want to use. *See Wayne's article on the SoarIdaho site under the
> Scheder gliders section. *He constructs a tail dolly for his glider,
> and many of the techniques are applicable to your (vastly simpler)
> wing cuffs.

[Tim Taylor]

On May 13, 11:14*am, Grider Pirate > wrote:
> On May 13, 9:56*am, Martin Gregorie >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 13 May 2010 08:07:51 -0700, vontresc wrote:
> > > Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
> > > last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
> > > sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
> > > was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The question
> > > I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how many layers
> > > would be required.
>
> > Don't forget to put overwide carpet or felt on the wing first, then the
> > release film and lay up the glass over that.
>
> > IMO you could do a lot worse than give CST a call, tell them what you're
> > doing and ask what glasscloth/chopped strand mat, release film and epoxy
> > they'd recommend. They sell Pro-set, MGS and West systems epoxy.
>
> > Look at and measure wing cuffs at your local field to get a feel for how
> > wide the cuff needs to be and how thick you'll need to make it before you
> > talk to them, or any other supplier for that matter. Talk to the owners
> > to find out what they'd want to change if they replaced their wing cuffs.
>
> > CST are at Tehachapi:http://www.cstsales.com/
>
> > If you speak to Matt or Gail tell them I sent you. Matt is a keen model
> > flyer and got into selling composite materials through sourcing them to
> > build his competition models. They later branched out into supplying the
> > custom car folks and Hollywood film set builders, so they will understand
> > making things the size of wing cuffs.
>
> > --
> > martin@ * | Martin Gregori
> > gregorie. | Essex, UK
> > org * * * |
>
> While I use the MGS epoxies for repair work, I wouldn't spend the big
> bucks for it to make wing cuffs. Wayne Paul sent me a link (which I
> will try to find when I get home tonight) for an outfit in Florida
> that sells epoxies that are about 1/3 the price of the MGS epoxy.
> They also sell the super thick/coarse glass cloth and mat that you
> will want to use. *See Wayne's article on the SoarIdaho site under the
> Scheder gliders section. *He constructs a tail dolly for his glider,
> and many of the techniques are applicable to your (vastly simpler)
> wing cuffs.

Probably Raka

http://www.raka.com/index.html

Great Epoxy at about the best price in the US. Great for all types of
projects.

I have bee using it for years on may different projects. Most cuffs
are thick so a layer or two of chopped between a weave would work well
and not require 10 layers of weave.

[Grider Pirate]

On May 13, 8:07*am, vontresc > wrote:
> Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
> last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
> sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
> was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The
> question I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how
> many layers would be required.
>
> Thanks
>
> Pete

Found the link from Wayne Paul:
http://www.shopmaninc.com/index.html

[David Walsh[_2_]]

Pete,

Wayne Paul has a nice page on how to build a tail dolly, not
specifically what
you are asking about, but you might pick up some general tips.
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Tail_Dolly/index.html

More specifically, check out another of Wayne's pages. On the page,
I think the "carrier links" are exactly what you are looking for.
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Wing_Carrier/LWT-3.htm

And lastly, Lane Bush has a few photos of a wing cuff for a single man
rigger,
but you should still see the basic strategy. Check out the Cirrus,
Yahoo
news group, photos, #209 Project photo albums, Wing Rigger Mold.

Hope this gets you going.

Regards,
David Walsh

On May 13, 11:07*am, vontresc > wrote:
> Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
> last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
> sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
> was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The
> question I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how
> many layers would be required.
>
> Thanks
>
> Pete

[vontresc]

Thanks for all the info. Can anyone give me some more info on the
"tooling cloth" that is mentioned in Wayne Paul's tail dolly build?

I was just going to use West Systems because I can get it locally, and
have used it in the past. I'll probably take your advice, and go with
another epoxy though.

Pete
On May 13, 5:51*pm, David Walsh > wrote:
> Pete,
>
> Wayne Paul has a nice page on how to build a tail dolly, *not
> specifically what
> you are asking about, but you might pick up some general tips.http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Tail_Dolly/index.html
>
> More specifically, check out another of Wayne's pages. On the page,
> I think the "carrier links" *are exactly what you are looking for.http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Wing_Carrier/LWT-3.htm
>
> And lastly, Lane Bush has a few photos of a wing cuff for a single man
> rigger,
> but you should still see the basic strategy. *Check out the Cirrus,
> Yahoo
> news group, photos, #209 Project photo albums, Wing Rigger Mold.
>
> Hope this gets you going.
>
> Regards,
> David Walsh
>
> On May 13, 11:07*am, vontresc > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
> > last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
> > sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
> > was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The
> > question I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how
> > many layers would be required.
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Pete

[Tim Taylor]

On May 13, 5:32*pm, vontresc > wrote:
> Thanks for all the info. Can anyone give me some more info on the
> "tooling cloth" that is mentioned in Wayne Paul's tail dolly build?
>
> I was just going to use West Systems because I can get it locally, and
> have used it in the past. I'll probably take your advice, and go with
> another epoxy though.
>
> Pete
> On May 13, 5:51*pm, David Walsh > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Pete,
>
> > Wayne Paul has a nice page on how to build a tail dolly, *not
> > specifically what
> > you are asking about, but you might pick up some general tips.http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Tail_Dolly/index.html
>
> > More specifically, check out another of Wayne's pages. On the page,
> > I think the "carrier links" *are exactly what you are looking for.http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Wing_Carrier/LWT-3.htm
>
> > And lastly, Lane Bush has a few photos of a wing cuff for a single man
> > rigger,
> > but you should still see the basic strategy. *Check out the Cirrus,
> > Yahoo
> > news group, photos, #209 Project photo albums, Wing Rigger Mold.
>
> > Hope this gets you going.
>
> > Regards,
> > David Walsh
>
> > On May 13, 11:07*am, vontresc > wrote:
>
> > > Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
> > > last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
> > > sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
> > > was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The
> > > question I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how
> > > many layers would be required.
>
> > > Thanks
>
> > > Pete

Tooling cloth is usually a much heavier cloth that minimizes the
number of layer you have to put down.

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/Wicks/Pages/CompositeMaterials.pdf

Look at page 56, BIAXIAL & TRIAXIAL CLOTH. You can get it up to 22 oz
per sq yard. I would guess you could get away with 3 to 4 layers of 22
oz for a wing cuff if it is fully closed and slides over the end of
the wing.

[Wayne Paul]

Another good source for epoxy and cloth is
http://www.shopmaninc.com/index.html

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://tinyurl.com/N990-6F


"Tim Taylor" > wrote in message ...
On May 13, 5:32 pm, vontresc > wrote:
> Thanks for all the info. Can anyone give me some more info on the
> "tooling cloth" that is mentioned in Wayne Paul's tail dolly build?
>
> I was just going to use West Systems because I can get it locally, and
> have used it in the past. I'll probably take your advice, and go with
> another epoxy though.
>
> Pete
> On May 13, 5:51 pm, David Walsh > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Pete,
>
> > Wayne Paul has a nice page on how to build a tail dolly, not
> > specifically what
> > you are asking about, but you might pick up some general tips.http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Tail_Dolly/index.html
>
> > More specifically, check out another of Wayne's pages. On the page,
> > I think the "carrier links" are exactly what you are looking for.http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Wing_Carrier/LWT-3.htm
>
> > And lastly, Lane Bush has a few photos of a wing cuff for a single man
> > rigger,
> > but you should still see the basic strategy. Check out the Cirrus,
> > Yahoo
> > news group, photos, #209 Project photo albums, Wing Rigger Mold.
>
> > Hope this gets you going.
>
> > Regards,
> > David Walsh
>
> > On May 13, 11:07 am, vontresc > wrote:
>
> > > Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
> > > last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
> > > sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
> > > was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The
> > > question I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how
> > > many layers would be required.
>
> > > Thanks
>
> > > Pete

Tooling cloth is usually a much heavier cloth that minimizes the
number of layer you have to put down.

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/Wicks/Pages/CompositeMaterials.pdf

Look at page 56, BIAXIAL & TRIAXIAL CLOTH. You can get it up to 22 oz
per sq yard. I would guess you could get away with 3 to 4 layers of 22
oz for a wing cuff if it is fully closed and slides over the end of
the wing.

[Brad[_2_]]

On May 13, 8:07*am, vontresc > wrote:
> Anyone got good advice on building a fiberglass wing cuff? I realized
> last week that I really need to get rid of the metal wing stands with
> sharp corners waiting to punch holes in my Ka-6 wings. So far my plan
> was to mold the cuffs on the wing using west systems epoxy. The
> question I have is what weight of cloth would you suggest, and how
> many layers would be required.
>
> Thanks
>
> Pete

I would get some 8 to 10 oz boat cloth, plain weave would be fine, a
gallon of polyester resin and a bottle of MEKP, get some core mat for
a core and use that to bulk up the laminate. Like others have said,
make sure to put a plastic tarp over the wing and pull it tight, tape
it down good and then place your felt or rubber material over the
plastic, put a plastic tarp over that and then start laying up your
glass, core-mat and glass.

At least that is my plan for the wing cuff and the the tail wheel
dolly for the I am working on.

Brad