Mode S code?

[William W. Plummer]

I was looking at the FAA N-number database. Everything seems to have a
mode S code, even a friend's balloon that doesn't have a transponder.
Can anybody explain that?

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:22:56 GMT, "William W. Plummer"
> wrote:

>I was looking at the FAA N-number database. Everything seems to have a
> mode S code, even a friend's balloon that doesn't have a transponder.
> Can anybody explain that?

It's probably easier to assign a code to *everything* that has an N-number.
After all, the FAA may eventually require all aircraft to carry a
transponder. Plus, if your friend's balloon is eventually decommissioned
and the N-number reassigned, the Mode S code is already established.

Ron Wanttaja

[G. Burkhart]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:22:56 GMT, "William W. Plummer"
> > wrote:
>
> >I was looking at the FAA N-number database. Everything seems to have a
> > mode S code, even a friend's balloon that doesn't have a transponder.
> > Can anybody explain that?
>
> It's probably easier to assign a code to *everything* that has an
N-number.
> After all, the FAA may eventually require all aircraft to carry a
> transponder. Plus, if your friend's balloon is eventually decommissioned
> and the N-number reassigned, the Mode S code is already established.

I may be wrong, but isn't the S code unique for an aircraft? If an aircraft
changes its N number, does the S code change too? If an N number is
reassigned to another aircraft does the S code change?

--
-Greg /X
S code: 53171652

[William W. Plummer]

G. Burkhart wrote:
> "Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:22:56 GMT, "William W. Plummer"
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I was looking at the FAA N-number database. Everything seems to have a
>>> mode S code, even a friend's balloon that doesn't have a transponder.
>>> Can anybody explain that?
>>
>>It's probably easier to assign a code to *everything* that has an
>
> N-number.
>
>>After all, the FAA may eventually require all aircraft to carry a
>>transponder. Plus, if your friend's balloon is eventually decommissioned
>>and the N-number reassigned, the Mode S code is already established.
>
>
> I may be wrong, but isn't the S code unique for an aircraft? If an aircraft
> changes its N number, does the S code change too? If an N number is
> reassigned to another aircraft does the S code change?
>
My guess is the S code is unique to the transponder, not the plane.

[Thomas Borchert]

William,

> My guess is the S code is unique to the transponder, not the plane.
>

Actually, the S code is programmed into the transponder in setup mode
and can be changed any time. The code is issued by the aviation
authorities for an aircraft registration number. Or, in the case of
airline flights, the actual flight number is programmed into the
transponder, which, as you can imagine, changes quite a bit.

With our German GTX330 installation, the LBA (German FAA-equivalent)
issued a hex code upon installation for our aircraft which was then put
into the transponder.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Ron Natalie]

"William W. Plummer" > wrote in message news:cxSJc.104956> > I may be wrong, but isn't the S code
unique for an aircraft? If an aircraft
> > changes its N number, does the S code change too? If an N number is
> > reassigned to another aircraft does the S code change?
> >
> My guess is the S code is unique to the transponder, not the plane.

The Mode S goes with the aircraft. Each aircraft registration has a mode S. It's
constant whether the N number changes or what transponder is in the aircraft.

[Thomas Borchert]

Ron,

> Each aircraft registration has a mode S. It's
> constant whether the N number changes
>

What's the difference between N number and aircraft registration in
the above quote?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Ron Natalie]

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message ...
> Ron,
>
> > Each aircraft registration has a mode S. It's
> > constant whether the N number changes
> >
>
> What's the difference between N number and aircraft registration in
> the above quote?

You can change the N number. The Mode S is tied to the aircraft itself (the
model and serial #).

[William W. Plummer]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> "Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message ...
>
>>Ron,
>>
>>
>>>Each aircraft registration has a mode S. It's
>>>constant whether the N number changes
>>>
>>
>>What's the difference between N number and aircraft registration in
>>the above quote?
>
>
> You can change the N number. The Mode S is tied to the aircraft itself (the
> model and serial #).
>
So the Mode S number bound to the airframe. Is that the Airworthiness
Certificate? It's all sort of strange because you can replace your
transponder, a wing, radios, fuel tanks, the engine... just what is the
"aircraft"? One view is that it is the file card-size plate that
identifies the aircraft. But I thought that has the N-number on it.

Let me guess: the aircraft is the same as the N-number and that cannot
be changed. The Mode-S number is simply a reflection of the N-number.
Removing the transponder from a plane probably requires the technician
to zero the Mode-S number in the transponder. Installing a transponder
requires the tech to lookup the Mode-S number based on the N-number

[Dave Stadt]

"William W. Plummer" > wrote in message
news:3xhLc.132243$IQ4.127452@attbi_s02...
> Ron Natalie wrote:
> > "Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >>Ron,
> >>
> >>
> >>>Each aircraft registration has a mode S. It's
> >>>constant whether the N number changes
> >>>
> >>
> >>What's the difference between N number and aircraft registration in
> >>the above quote?
> >
> >
> > You can change the N number. The Mode S is tied to the aircraft itself
(the
> > model and serial #).
> >
> So the Mode S number bound to the airframe. Is that the Airworthiness
> Certificate? It's all sort of strange because you can replace your
> transponder, a wing, radios, fuel tanks, the engine... just what is the
> "aircraft"? One view is that it is the file card-size plate that
> identifies the aircraft. But I thought that has the N-number on it.
>
> Let me guess: the aircraft is the same as the N-number and that cannot
> be changed. The Mode-S number is simply a reflection of the N-number.
> Removing the transponder from a plane probably requires the technician
> to zero the Mode-S number in the transponder. Installing a transponder
> requires the tech to lookup the Mode-S number based on the N-number

The dataplate is the airplane. All the rest is just part numbers. A tail
number can be and often is changed and is not tied to a specific serial
number/data plate. The data plate does not have the N number engraved on
it.

[Jim Knoyle]

"William W. Plummer" > wrote in message
news:3xhLc.132243$IQ4.127452@attbi_s02...
> Ron Natalie wrote:
> > "Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >>Ron,
> >>
> >>
> >>>Each aircraft registration has a mode S. It's
> >>>constant whether the N number changes
> >>>
> >>
> >>What's the difference between N number and aircraft registration in
> >>the above quote?
> >
> >
> > You can change the N number. The Mode S is tied to the aircraft itself
(the
> > model and serial #).
> >
> So the Mode S number bound to the airframe. Is that the Airworthiness
> Certificate? It's all sort of strange because you can replace your
> transponder, a wing, radios, fuel tanks, the engine... just what is the
> "aircraft"? One view is that it is the file card-size plate that
> identifies the aircraft. But I thought that has the N-number on it.
>
> Let me guess: the aircraft is the same as the N-number and that cannot
> be changed. The Mode-S number is simply a reflection of the N-number.
> Removing the transponder from a plane probably requires the technician
> to zero the Mode-S number in the transponder. Installing a transponder
> requires the tech to lookup the Mode-S number based on the N-number

Actually, one of the connectors on the rack into which the
transponder is installed has a set of contacts that are encoded
with the code for that aircraft. *Any* transponder plugged into
that position has the info for that specific airframe. Same kind
of technique is used for CVR, FDR and several other boxes.

[Ron Natalie]

> Actually, one of the connectors on the rack into which the
> transponder is installed has a set of contacts that are encoded
> with the code for that aircraft. *Any* transponder plugged into
> that position has the info for that specific airframe. Same kind
> of technique is used for CVR, FDR and several other boxes.

I'm not talking about the physical location of the code.

I'm talking about the assignment. When your aircraft is registered
in the FAA database it gets a Mode S code (whether you have a Mode
S transponder or not). You can change the N numbers or the owners,
etc... but the Mode S assignment stays with that aircraft in the database.

[Jim Knoyle]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> > Actually, one of the connectors on the rack into which the
> > transponder is installed has a set of contacts that are encoded
> > with the code for that aircraft. *Any* transponder plugged into
> > that position has the info for that specific airframe. Same kind
> > of technique is used for CVR, FDR and several other boxes.
>
> I'm not talking about the physical location of the code.
>
> I'm talking about the assignment. When your aircraft is registered
> in the FAA database it gets a Mode S code (whether you have a Mode
> S transponder or not). You can change the N numbers or the owners,
> etc... but the Mode S assignment stays with that aircraft in the database.
>
I'd hate to see any kind of misunderstanding here but I still think
my response was perfectly valid for the previous three lines:
" Removing the transponder from a plane probably requires the technician
to zero the Mode-S number in the transponder. Installing a transponder
requires the tech to lookup the Mode-S number based on the N-number."

JK (one of those technicians, retired)

[Mike Ferrer]

Depends on the transponder. The Garmin GTX-330, for example, is software
programmable and swapping out transponder requires keyboard entry of the
mode S address by the technician. Not to mention recertification by a
certificated repair station...

Mike


"Jim Knoyle" > wrote in message
...
>
> Actually, one of the connectors on the rack into which the
> transponder is installed has a set of contacts that are encoded
> with the code for that aircraft. *Any* transponder plugged into
> that position has the info for that specific airframe. Same kind
> of technique is used for CVR, FDR and several other boxes.
>
>
>

[Jim Knoyle]

"Mike Ferrer" > wrote in message
...
> Depends on the transponder. The Garmin GTX-330, for example, is software
> programmable and swapping out transponder requires keyboard entry of the
> mode S address by the technician. Not to mention recertification by a
> certificated repair station...
>
> Mike
>
Thanks for the info. Sometimes I assume too much from
my experience limited to 727 ... 767 & DC-10.

JK
>
> "Jim Knoyle" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Actually, one of the connectors on the rack into which the
> > transponder is installed has a set of contacts that are encoded
> > with the code for that aircraft. *Any* transponder plugged into
> > that position has the info for that specific airframe. Same kind
> > of technique is used for CVR, FDR and several other boxes.
> >
> >
> >
>
>