Re: Ham Radio In The Airplane

[Cy Galley]

Why not wire one ear cup for your aviation and the other cup for ham
operations? If there are no connections then you should be able to hear
both. Use a hand held mic for one or the other.
--
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
1-518-731-6800

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
> There was a question the other day about an amateur radio (or any other
two-way
> radio, for that matter) aboard the airplane. At least for amateur radio
(part
> 97) I got an answer back from an old time FCC person who was in this
business
> for a whole bunch of years. Names are omitted for reasons of privacy.
>
> Herewith the exchange...my questions, his answers.
>
>
>
> >97.101(b) says that an amateur station aboard an aircraft must be
> >"...independent of all other radio equipment...".
> >
> >I've been having some discussions about this, especially my PERSONAL
> >discussion because of what I do for a living (manufacture aircraft
> >electronic devices).
> >
> >My interpretation of RADIO devices means that I can't run my 2-meter ham
rig
> >audio through a RADIO (transceiver) or use the RADIO audio to modulate
the
> >rig.
>
> That is about the extent of the "separation". It's not a real
> problem for most small aircraft where the aircraft (VHF) radio is AM
> and the 2 meter rig is FM. Where it becomes a problem is when the
> a/c is equipped with a HF rig and it gets tuned to the ham bands.
> More than one ham-licensed air transport pilot has done that and
> openly bragged that that's what is necessary to relieve the boredom
> of flying a large plane over the ocean.
>
> >It does NOT preclude me from using my aircraft headset and microphone,
even
> >if that headset and microphone goes through an audio switching device
(audio
> >panel) to switch select between the aircraft RADIO and the ham rig.
>
> That's how I see it as well.
>
> >As a matter of fact, it would seem to me dangerous to design a system
where
> >I would have to pull the headset plugs out of the aircraft radio and plug
> >them in to the ham rig. This, of course, prevents me from monitoring any
of
> >the aircraft radios while using the ham rig. Not good, especially in a
> >crowded environment where monitoring the aircraft radio is an item of
> >safety.
>
> Agreed.
>
> >I guess the question really is where the aircraft RADIO equipment stops
and
> >the rest of the aircraft systems start. Battery? Audio?
>
> The common sense definition of "the radio" would include the COMM
> transceiver(s) and any NAVAID devices. Electrical and audio panels
> should be excluded.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> http://www.rst-engr.com

[H. Adam Stevens]

When using a handheld I just connect an ear plug headset and wear it under
my normal headset.
As far as HF, I worked KJ5CB on 14.347 MHz from my mobile in Austin while he
was driving a Boeing over the Amazon.
HK3SA was aboard the Amazon Queen on the Amazon River and they even flashed
lights at each other.
Aeronautical mobiles check into the Maritime Mobile Net on 14.3 MHz
frequently.
I think the problem is connecting non-TSO'd radios to an aircraft's system,
not operating an aircraft HF radio on a ham frequency.
H.
N502TB, NQ5H

"Cy Galley" > wrote in message
news:PrqNa.105458$R73.12132@sccrnsc04...
> Why not wire one ear cup for your aviation and the other cup for ham
> operations? If there are no connections then you should be able to hear
> both. Use a hand held mic for one or the other.
> --
> Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
> Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> www.bellanca-championclub.com
> Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
> Quarterly newsletters on time
> Reasonable document reprints
> 1-518-731-6800
>
> "Jim Weir" > wrote in message
> ...
> > There was a question the other day about an amateur radio (or any other
> two-way
> > radio, for that matter) aboard the airplane. At least for amateur radio
> (part
> > 97) I got an answer back from an old time FCC person who was in this
> business
> > for a whole bunch of years. Names are omitted for reasons of privacy.
> >
> > Herewith the exchange...my questions, his answers.
> >
> >
> >
> > >97.101(b) says that an amateur station aboard an aircraft must be
> > >"...independent of all other radio equipment...".
> > >
> > >I've been having some discussions about this, especially my PERSONAL
> > >discussion because of what I do for a living (manufacture aircraft
> > >electronic devices).
> > >
> > >My interpretation of RADIO devices means that I can't run my 2-meter
ham
> rig
> > >audio through a RADIO (transceiver) or use the RADIO audio to modulate
> the
> > >rig.
> >
> > That is about the extent of the "separation". It's not a real
> > problem for most small aircraft where the aircraft (VHF) radio is AM
> > and the 2 meter rig is FM. Where it becomes a problem is when the
> > a/c is equipped with a HF rig and it gets tuned to the ham bands.
> > More than one ham-licensed air transport pilot has done that and
> > openly bragged that that's what is necessary to relieve the boredom
> > of flying a large plane over the ocean.
> >
> > >It does NOT preclude me from using my aircraft headset and microphone,
> even
> > >if that headset and microphone goes through an audio switching device
> (audio
> > >panel) to switch select between the aircraft RADIO and the ham rig.
> >
> > That's how I see it as well.
> >
> > >As a matter of fact, it would seem to me dangerous to design a system
> where
> > >I would have to pull the headset plugs out of the aircraft radio and
plug
> > >them in to the ham rig. This, of course, prevents me from monitoring
any
> of
> > >the aircraft radios while using the ham rig. Not good, especially in a
> > >crowded environment where monitoring the aircraft radio is an item of
> > >safety.
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > >I guess the question really is where the aircraft RADIO equipment stops
> and
> > >the rest of the aircraft systems start. Battery? Audio?
> >
> > The common sense definition of "the radio" would include the COMM
> > transceiver(s) and any NAVAID devices. Electrical and audio panels
> > should be excluded.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> > VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> > http://www.rst-engr.com
>
>

[Justin Case]

Speaking on this subject, is there a conglomeration of hams that meet
at OSH? What about freqs for the HT?

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:31:17 -0700, Jim Weir > wrote:

>There was a question the other day about an amateur radio (or any other two-way
>radio, for that matter) aboard the airplane. At least for amateur radio (part
>97) I got an answer back from an old time FCC person who was in this business
>for a whole bunch of years. Names are omitted for reasons of privacy.
>
>Herewith the exchange...my questions, his answers.
>
>
>
>>97.101(b) says that an amateur station aboard an aircraft must be
>>"...independent of all other radio equipment...".
>>
>>I've been having some discussions about this, especially my PERSONAL
>>discussion because of what I do for a living (manufacture aircraft
>>electronic devices).
>>
>>My interpretation of RADIO devices means that I can't run my 2-meter ham rig
>>audio through a RADIO (transceiver) or use the RADIO audio to modulate the
>>rig.
>
> That is about the extent of the "separation". It's not a real
> problem for most small aircraft where the aircraft (VHF) radio is AM
> and the 2 meter rig is FM. Where it becomes a problem is when the
> a/c is equipped with a HF rig and it gets tuned to the ham bands.
> More than one ham-licensed air transport pilot has done that and
> openly bragged that that's what is necessary to relieve the boredom
> of flying a large plane over the ocean.
>
>>It does NOT preclude me from using my aircraft headset and microphone, even
>>if that headset and microphone goes through an audio switching device (audio
>>panel) to switch select between the aircraft RADIO and the ham rig.
>
> That's how I see it as well.
>
>>As a matter of fact, it would seem to me dangerous to design a system where
>>I would have to pull the headset plugs out of the aircraft radio and plug
>>them in to the ham rig. This, of course, prevents me from monitoring any of
>>the aircraft radios while using the ham rig. Not good, especially in a
>>crowded environment where monitoring the aircraft radio is an item of
>>safety.
>
> Agreed.
>
>>I guess the question really is where the aircraft RADIO equipment stops and
>>the rest of the aircraft systems start. Battery? Audio?
>
> The common sense definition of "the radio" would include the COMM
> transceiver(s) and any NAVAID devices. Electrical and audio panels
> should be excluded.
>
>
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
>VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
>http://www.rst-engr.com

[Roger Halstead]

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:31:17 -0700, Jim Weir > wrote:

>There was a question the other day about an amateur radio (or any other two-way
>radio, for that matter) aboard the airplane. At least for amateur radio (part
>97) I got an answer back from an old time FCC person who was in this business
>for a whole bunch of years. Names are omitted for reasons of privacy.
>
I think we have the same "take" in that I can mount it in the pane and
even run it through the audio panel.

I can't for the life of me imagine why some one would want to take the
audio from the aircraft rig to modulate the ham rig, or vice versa.

OTOH, I have worked both military and civilian flights on the HF bands
using both the military equipment (FB-111) and ham band equipment for
the HF aviation work...(non certified) but they were using it
transoceanic.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Paul Millner]

>> I think the problem is connecting non-TSO'd radios to an aircraft's
system,

I wouldn't think so, since Part 91, not even the NavComs need be TSO'd.

Case in point... KX170B, not TSO'd; KX175, TSO'd (IIRC)

Paul

[H. Adam Stevens]

good point
there are ham rigs wired in with field approval IIRC
probably depends on the FSDO
H
"Paul Millner" > wrote in message
...
> >> I think the problem is connecting non-TSO'd radios to an aircraft's
> system,
>
> I wouldn't think so, since Part 91, not even the NavComs need be TSO'd.
>
> Case in point... KX170B, not TSO'd; KX175, TSO'd (IIRC)
>
> Paul
>
>

[Jim Weir]

146.52 simplex is used on the field. There aren't enuf of us back there to make
any sort of pileup. If you WANT to have a ragchew after meeting on .52, go to
..53 or .54 or...

If you want the repeater frequencies, offset, and all that good stuff, download
the Oshkosh Frequencies chart from www.rstengineering.com

Jim


Justin Case >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->Speaking on this subject, is there a conglomeration of hams that meet
->at OSH? What about freqs for the HT?


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Barry S.]

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:31:17 -0700, Jim Weir > wrote:

> That is about the extent of the "separation". It's not a real
> problem for most small aircraft where the aircraft (VHF) radio is AM
> and the 2 meter rig is FM. Where it becomes a problem is when the
> a/c is equipped with a HF rig and it gets tuned to the ham bands.
> More than one ham-licensed air transport pilot has done that and
> openly bragged that that's what is necessary to relieve the boredom
> of flying a large plane over the ocean.

Jim, when you fly with a 2m hand held, what kind of range do you get
and is it incorporated into you audio panel?


__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.

[Justin Case]

Thanks Jim, see you there.

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 08:34:35 -0700, Jim Weir > wrote:

>146.52 simplex is used on the field. There aren't enuf of us back there to make
>any sort of pileup. If you WANT to have a ragchew after meeting on .52, go to
>.53 or .54 or...
>
>If you want the repeater frequencies, offset, and all that good stuff, download
>the Oshkosh Frequencies chart from www.rstengineering.com
>
>Jim
>
>
>Justin Case >
>shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:
>
>->Speaking on this subject, is there a conglomeration of hams that meet
>->at OSH? What about freqs for the HT?
>
>
>Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
>VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
>http://www.rst-engr.com

[Paul]

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know. I've never used a handheld. I've got a Kenwood 231 mounted
like
> an airplane radio in the stack and plumbed through the audio panel to the
> headsets.


Are the mike inputs and audio outputs compatible with the aviation headset
impedance?

I'm a lapsed ham and am considering 2M Aero mobile. I find I know NOTHING
about the
present day equipment. When I was active, everything had nice filaments to
keep stuff warm <G>

I'd like to find a piece of 2 meter gear that is generally plug and play.
I'll stick a 19 inch on the belly
of my aircraft, and take to the airwaves----AFTER I retake the exams.

I let an advanced class license lapse. (*&^^%$

Thanks

Paul Anton
ex WA6NXL WA7ESD HL9VL

[Jim Weir]

"Paul" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->
->"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
->> I don't know. I've never used a handheld. I've got a Kenwood 231 mounted
->like
->> an airplane radio in the stack and plumbed through the audio panel to the
->> headsets.
->
->
->Are the mike inputs and audio outputs compatible with the aviation headset
->impedance?

Not really. The standard aircraft mic simulates an old carbon element. You get
roughly half a volt to a volt p-p across something like 300 ohms. A standard
dynamic input to a ham rig is a few millivolts across a couple of dozen ohms. A
standard electret input is a couple of tenths of a volt across 2K or so.

The standard aircraft earphone wants a volt or two p-p across 150 ohms. The
normal ham rig output is speaker level (a couple of volts into 8 ohms).

The point is, there IS no ham radio standard, while the aircraft headset
standard is quite well defined. You can't just hook the aircraft headset into
the ham rig on a PNP basis. You always wind up dicking around with voltage and
impedance shifters to make it play well.

Jim

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jim Pennino]

In rec.aviation.owning Jim Weir > wrote:
> "Paul" >
> shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

> ->
> ->"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
> ...
> ->> I don't know. I've never used a handheld. I've got a Kenwood 231 mounted
> ->like
> ->> an airplane radio in the stack and plumbed through the audio panel to the
> ->> headsets.
> ->
> ->
> ->Are the mike inputs and audio outputs compatible with the aviation headset
> ->impedance?

> Not really. The standard aircraft mic simulates an old carbon element. You get
> roughly half a volt to a volt p-p across something like 300 ohms. A standard
> dynamic input to a ham rig is a few millivolts across a couple of dozen ohms. A
> standard electret input is a couple of tenths of a volt across 2K or so.

> The standard aircraft earphone wants a volt or two p-p across 150 ohms. The
> normal ham rig output is speaker level (a couple of volts into 8 ohms).

> The point is, there IS no ham radio standard, while the aircraft headset
> standard is quite well defined. You can't just hook the aircraft headset into
> the ham rig on a PNP basis. You always wind up dicking around with voltage and
> impedance shifters to make it play well.

> Jim

> Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> http://www.rst-engr.com

FWIW, the July QST Hints & Kinks column had this discussion with a simple
circuit to use an aviation headset with a ham rig.

--
Jim Pennino

[Roger Halstead]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:18:26 -0700, Jim Weir > wrote:

>I don't know. I've never used a handheld. I've got a Kenwood 231 mounted like
>an airplane radio in the stack and plumbed through the audio panel to the
>headsets.
>
>The antenna is a 19" piece of brazing rod on a connector mounted to the outboard
>rib and inside the plastic wingtip. The rib and the rest of the wing form the
>ground plane.
>
>Range? I've had 100-150 mile contacts at 10K' like they were in the copilot's
>seat. At greater ranges they drop off like an orange off a table. At that
>altitude, power and sensitivity mean damned little; radio horizon is everything.
>

I get about the same with a 5 Watt hend held to 50 watt mobiles on
146.52.

I hook the belt clip on the door strap leaving the antenna sticking up
in the window. The I use one of the little ear pieces under my
aviation head set and a noise canceling lapel mike with PTT,

Works like a charm.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

<snip>

[Roger Halstead]

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:32:41 +0000 (UTC), Jim Pennino
> wrote:

>In rec.aviation.owning Jim Weir > wrote:
>> "Paul" >
>> shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:
>
>> ->
>> ->"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> ->> I don't know. I've never used a handheld. I've got a Kenwood 231 mounted
>> ->like
>> ->> an airplane radio in the stack and plumbed through the audio panel to the
>> ->> headsets.
>> ->
>> ->
>> ->Are the mike inputs and audio outputs compatible with the aviation headset
>> ->impedance?
>
>> Not really. The standard aircraft mic simulates an old carbon element. You get
>> roughly half a volt to a volt p-p across something like 300 ohms. A standard
>> dynamic input to a ham rig is a few millivolts across a couple of dozen ohms. A
>> standard electret input is a couple of tenths of a volt across 2K or so.
>
>> The standard aircraft earphone wants a volt or two p-p across 150 ohms. The
>> normal ham rig output is speaker level (a couple of volts into 8 ohms).
>
>> The point is, there IS no ham radio standard, while the aircraft headset
>> standard is quite well defined. You can't just hook the aircraft headset into
>> the ham rig on a PNP basis. You always wind up dicking around with voltage and
>> impedance shifters to make it play well.
>
>> Jim
>
>> Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
>> VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
>> http://www.rst-engr.com
>
>FWIW, the July QST Hints & Kinks column had this discussion with a simple
>circuit to use an aviation headset with a ham rig.

It's far, far simpeler to just get one of the little ear pieces with
the small lapel mike. Probably cheaper in the long run ...

They are inexpensive so why bother messing around with a good head set
when you don't have to.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Jim Weir]

Because there are those of us who see clipping a handheld to a window with a
rubber duckie is not the way we want to do things. Why buy a $300 headset and
an audio panel to get the best possible audio into your aircraft transceiver if
you aren't willing to do the same thing for your ham rig?

It really ain't rocket science, and besides, somewhere I read that "fostering
advancement of the state of the radio art" had a place in Part 97.

Jim


->
->They are inexpensive so why bother messing around with a good head set
->when you don't have to.
->
->Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
->www.rogerhalstead.com
->N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Javier Henderson]

Jim Weir > writes:

> Because there are those of us who see clipping a handheld to a window with a
> rubber duckie is not the way we want to do things. Why buy a $300 headset and
> an audio panel to get the best possible audio into your aircraft transceiver if
> you aren't willing to do the same thing for your ham rig?
>
> It really ain't rocket science, and besides, somewhere I read that "fostering
> advancement of the state of the radio art" had a place in Part 97.

Yep.

I just got done adapting an IC207H VHF/UHF rig to a King KMA28 audio
panel. It wasn't rocket science by any stretch of the imagination. In
fact, about four or five passive components in a small aluminum
enclosure is all it took. At some point I might want to add sidetone,
which will involve a few more components. But either way, it's
pretty simple.

-jav w6vms

[Jim Weir]

Thanks for the kind words. So far as I know, there is no dedicated site to hams
in the air.

Now, start another thread of hate and discontent, I've been chastized mightily
(from people I don't know from Adam's Off Ox) that "aeronautical mobile" is
improper terminology when operating an amateur station on board a light
aircraft.

Since I can't find a definition of "aeronautical" in the FCC regs, can anybody
point me to where "aeronautical mobile" is limited to one class or category of
aircraft?

Jim


"MJC" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->Great thread, Jim. I've got a Yeasu FT-817 that I have been thinking of
->taking along with me in my yet to be completed RV7. I'm wondering if there
->is a web site that covers the use of Ham in the air more extensively?

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jim Weir]

Yeah, but then you've got to find a compliant A&P to sign it off {;-)

BTW, why not post the website of your installation. That has GOT to be the most
sanitary ham radio installation I've ever seen ... other than MINE, of course
{;-)


Jim



Javier Henderson >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->
->I just got done adapting an IC207H VHF/UHF rig to a King KMA28 audio
->panel. It wasn't rocket science by any stretch of the imagination. In
->fact, about four or five passive components in a small aluminum
->enclosure is all it took. At some point I might want to add sidetone,
->which will involve a few more components. But either way, it's
->pretty simple.
->
->-jav w6vms

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jim Weir]

No doubt about it...even though it is one of ... sniff ... THOSE intercoms {;-)


No, Ron, interfacing it through an intercom or audio panel removes a lot of the
folderol with interfacing it directly to the headset. However, you STILL need
to know the mic voltage and impedance levels (three different kinds in popular
use) for your parTICular ham rig.

Jim






"Ron Natalie" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->
->"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
->
->> The point is, there IS no ham radio standard, while the aircraft headset
->> standard is quite well defined. You can't just hook the aircraft headset
into
->> the ham rig on a PNP basis. You always wind up dicking around with voltage
and
->> impedance shifters to make it play well.
->
->While putzing around with my aviation headset and my ham gear, I found that a
lot
->of the sins of bias voltages and impedences were covered up by placing my
sigtronics
->portable intercom between the aviation headset and the radio. After that,
it's just
->a matter of getting the connectors right and hooking up the PTT.
->

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Javier Henderson]

Jim Weir > writes:

> Yeah, but then you've got to find a compliant A&P to sign it off {;-)

Hard to come by :)

> BTW, why not post the website of your installation. That has GOT to be the most
> sanitary ham radio installation I've ever seen ... other than MINE, of course
> {;-)

I suppose:

http://www.kjsl.net/~javier/phpix/index.php?album=fly%2FN772CG%2FHam+Radio+Installat ion&dispsize=800&start=0

The 2m antenna is the one on top of the tailcone, the 70cm one is on
the bottom, photos 9 and 10.

-jav

[Ron Natalie]

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message ...
> No doubt about it...even though it is one of ... sniff ... THOSE intercoms {;-)

Oh well. I managed to pick up my SPO for $25. The only RST intercom I ever got
to use was assembled by a guy who barely knew which end of the iron to hold on to.
(His piloting skills weren't much better by the way), so I'll not judge yours by that
instance.

> No, Ron, interfacing it through an intercom or audio panel removes a lot of the
> folderol with interfacing it directly to the headset. However, you STILL need
> to know the mic voltage and impedance levels (three different kinds in popular
> use) for your parTICular ham rig.

Yeah, but it's within the realm of tweaking. I can say that I could drive my FT470
directly from the "to the aircraft radio" side of my SPO.

Of course, the other quick and dirty is to just use ICOM as their aviation and amateur
gear share the same accessories and they've already built a aviation headset converter
box.

[Don Tuite]

If you use your aeronautical-mobile ham radio to order a pizza so that
it's ready for you when you land, is there a geographical limit beyond
which it's considered a commercial transaction?

Don

[Roger Halstead]

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 06:36:47 -0700, Jim Weir > wrote:

>Because there are those of us who see clipping a handheld to a window with a
>rubber duckie is not the way we want to do things. Why buy a $300 headset and
>an audio panel to get the best possible audio into your aircraft transceiver if
>you aren't willing to do the same thing for your ham rig?

Lord, no! <:-)) I guess you'll have to define "best possible audio"
Jim. I want "communications" quality where the band width is tailored
to the best for getting information across on both the aircraft and
ham rigs. Now and example of what I don't want is something that
sounds like one of those expensive Heil mikes used for contesting.


The lapel mike has excellent quality along with noise canceling and
works great which was a real surprise when I compare it to the prices
some of the guys spend on mikes. No, the earpiece doesn't sound like
hi-fi, but then again, I can't hear anything above 8K anyway. In the
airplane I'm lucky to hear anything above 4K with the extra noise.
The ANRs do help out there. I can hear the higher frequency sounds
much better while wearing them.

To top it off there is no discernable aircraft sound picked up by the
mike.

It's the little Kenwood combo. I tried the speaker mikes from Yaesu,
Icom, and Kenwood, but never found one I liked, or that had half way
decent sound.

Probably the best sounding one was the Icom compact headset with the
boom mike, but then I had to remember to turn off the VOX. I called
approach on 146.52 more than once using that setup. What I didn't
like was the little head band that went over the top. It really
wasn't long enough and even with the big Telex head set on the little
one felt like it was falling off. It never did, but it always felt
that way.

So far I've found the little Kenwood to be easy to use/convenient,
comfortable, and sound good, which gives me little incentive to try
and wire it in.

Now, when I get the G-III together it'll have either a duoband VHF/UHF
FM rig, or a VHF/UHF all mode rig in the panel and that will be wired
in through the audio panel.

Actually, I'd like to put that little Yaesu 100 watt HF/VHF/UHF all
mode rig in the G-III...but haven't figured out how to make a trailing
wire work in a plastic airplane. I'd also have to wire in an auto
retrieve to prevent aerobatics and landing with the thing extended, or
I'd probably use it as an arresting hook over the power lines just
short of the field.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>
>It really ain't rocket science, and besides, somewhere I read that "fostering
>advancement of the state of the radio art" had a place in Part 97.
>
>Jim
>
>
>->
>->They are inexpensive so why bother messing around with a good head set
>->when you don't have to.
>->
>->Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
>->www.rogerhalstead.com
>->N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>
>
>Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
>VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
>http://www.rst-engr.com

[Cy Galley]

Aviation radios do NOT have to be TSOed. King even sold a line of non-TSOed
radios.

"H. Adam Stevens" > wrote in message
...
> When using a handheld I just connect an ear plug headset and wear it under
> my normal headset.
> As far as HF, I worked KJ5CB on 14.347 MHz from my mobile in Austin while
he
> was driving a Boeing over the Amazon.
> HK3SA was aboard the Amazon Queen on the Amazon River and they even
flashed
> lights at each other.
> Aeronautical mobiles check into the Maritime Mobile Net on 14.3 MHz
> frequently.
> I think the problem is connecting non-TSO'd radios to an aircraft's
system,
> not operating an aircraft HF radio on a ham frequency.
> H.
> N502TB, NQ5H
>
> "Cy Galley" > wrote in message
> news:PrqNa.105458$R73.12132@sccrnsc04...
> > Why not wire one ear cup for your aviation and the other cup for ham
> > operations? If there are no connections then you should be able to hear
> > both. Use a hand held mic for one or the other.
> > --
> > Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
> > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> > www.bellanca-championclub.com
> > Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
> > Quarterly newsletters on time
> > Reasonable document reprints
> > 1-518-731-6800
> >
> > "Jim Weir" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > There was a question the other day about an amateur radio (or any
other
> > two-way
> > > radio, for that matter) aboard the airplane. At least for amateur
radio
> > (part
> > > 97) I got an answer back from an old time FCC person who was in this
> > business
> > > for a whole bunch of years. Names are omitted for reasons of privacy.
> > >
> > > Herewith the exchange...my questions, his answers.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >97.101(b) says that an amateur station aboard an aircraft must be
> > > >"...independent of all other radio equipment...".
> > > >
> > > >I've been having some discussions about this, especially my PERSONAL
> > > >discussion because of what I do for a living (manufacture aircraft
> > > >electronic devices).
> > > >
> > > >My interpretation of RADIO devices means that I can't run my 2-meter
> ham
> > rig
> > > >audio through a RADIO (transceiver) or use the RADIO audio to
modulate
> > the
> > > >rig.
> > >
> > > That is about the extent of the "separation". It's not a real
> > > problem for most small aircraft where the aircraft (VHF) radio is AM
> > > and the 2 meter rig is FM. Where it becomes a problem is when the
> > > a/c is equipped with a HF rig and it gets tuned to the ham bands.
> > > More than one ham-licensed air transport pilot has done that and
> > > openly bragged that that's what is necessary to relieve the boredom
> > > of flying a large plane over the ocean.
> > >
> > > >It does NOT preclude me from using my aircraft headset and
microphone,
> > even
> > > >if that headset and microphone goes through an audio switching device
> > (audio
> > > >panel) to switch select between the aircraft RADIO and the ham rig.
> > >
> > > That's how I see it as well.
> > >
> > > >As a matter of fact, it would seem to me dangerous to design a system
> > where
> > > >I would have to pull the headset plugs out of the aircraft radio and
> plug
> > > >them in to the ham rig. This, of course, prevents me from monitoring
> any
> > of
> > > >the aircraft radios while using the ham rig. Not good, especially in
a
> > > >crowded environment where monitoring the aircraft radio is an item of
> > > >safety.
> > >
> > > Agreed.
> > >
> > > >I guess the question really is where the aircraft RADIO equipment
stops
> > and
> > > >the rest of the aircraft systems start. Battery? Audio?
> > >
> > > The common sense definition of "the radio" would include the COMM
> > > transceiver(s) and any NAVAID devices. Electrical and audio panels
> > > should be excluded.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> > > VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> > > http://www.rst-engr.com
> >
> >
>
>