Re: Removeable tie down stakes - recommendations

[Maule Driver]

Thanks for all the feedback to my 6/20 post where I asked for recommendations for portable tiedown stakes.

I decided to buy "The Claw" from Hunting Solutions in Pearl MS.681-932-5832. The set received a good review in the latest issue of Aviation Consumer. It seemed to address most of the shortcomings of other systems.

The set is packaged in a nice cloth carrying case. It consists of 3 'claws', 9 stakes, one length of rope and a small claw hammer. I'm impressed with the well thought out design and the packaging. The weight is aprox 9lbs according to my bathroom scale. The price was $119 + 10 for UPS shipping.

I assume it will work as well as the Consumer review and I'm satisfied at this point. It seems worth the price.

[Justin Case]

I'm still looking for good tiedowns. Either by building or buying.
Was there a website on these?

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:46:47 GMT, "Maule Driver"
> wrote:

>Thanks for all the feedback to my 6/20 post where I asked for recommendations for portable tiedown stakes.
>
>I decided to buy "The Claw" from Hunting Solutions in Pearl MS.681-932-5832. The set received a good review in the latest issue of Aviation Consumer. It seemed to address most of the shortcomings of other systems.
>
>The set is packaged in a nice cloth carrying case. It consists of 3 'claws', 9 stakes, one length of rope and a small claw hammer. I'm impressed with the well thought out design and the packaging. The weight is aprox 9lbs according to my bathroom scale. The price was $119 + 10 for UPS shipping.
>
>I assume it will work as well as the Consumer review and I'm satisfied at this point. It seems worth the price.
>
>

[Thomas Borchert]

Maule,

thanks for posting the weight - I found that information missing
prominently from the AvCon article.

Why only one length of rope? Do they want you to cut it in threes?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Maule Driver]

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> thanks for posting the weight - I found that information missing
> prominently from the AvCon article.
>
> Why only one length of rope? Do they want you to cut it in threes?

It seems so and that would be the smart way to do it (hi/lo wing,
taildragger). It is 18' in length. The same type I use already.

The weight is more than I would have expected and yet, I guess that is part
of what is required to have an effective system. Seems right.

[Maule Driver]

"Justin Case" > wrote in message
...
> I'm still looking for good tiedowns. Either by building or buying.
> Was there a website on these?

I don't remember. I referenced the Aviation Consumer site. Call him - I
think it may be a 1 person operation.
>
> >Thanks for all the feedback to my 6/20 post where I asked for
recommendations for portable tiedown stakes.
> >
> >I decided to buy "The Claw" from Hunting Solutions in Pearl
MS.681-932-5832. The set received a good review in the latest issue of
Aviation Consumer. It seemed to address most of the shortcomings of other
systems.
> >

[Maule Driver]

I went out and tried the claw in the toughest looking soil I could find. Went into the ground easily and securely. I haven't seen anything to date that seems as secure. And I can't imagine what type of ground could resist it short of solid rock. But no measurements so....
"Maule Driver" > wrote in message . com...
Thanks for all the feedback to my 6/20 post where I asked for recommendations for portable tiedown stakes.

I decided to buy "The Claw" from Hunting Solutions in Pearl MS.681-932-5832. The set received a good review in the latest issue of Aviation Consumer. It seemed to address most of the shortcomings of other systems.

The set is packaged in a nice cloth carrying case. It consists of 3 'claws', 9 stakes, one length of rope and a small claw hammer. I'm impressed with the well thought out design and the packaging. The weight is aprox 9lbs according to my bathroom scale. The price was $119 + 10 for UPS shipping.

I assume it will work as well as the Consumer review and I'm satisfied at this point. It seems worth the price.

[Thomas Borchert]

Dave,

> I dispensed with the rope altogether and used manufactured webbing with
> hooks and a buckle (Home depot variety).
>

well, you might want to read Aviation Cinsumer's article on testing this
kind of stuff. Summarized best as: That kind of hardware is often the
weakest link by a huge margin.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Wayne]

I agree, I like to see a nice knot. Guess that's the boater in me
though, or is it the boyscout in me. A friend of mine sold his 172 and they
had it tied down via those straps with metal buckles. All the planes were
tied to the same cable running accross the apron. One of then worked loose
enough that the "J" hook came out of one side during a storm. Went down hill
from there, plane went on it's side and the other metal hook allowed it to
slide, right into the other planes, grouped them all together and flop them
all over. A total loss on all planes tied on that cable. What a shame! Got a
picture of it somewhere, I'll see if I can locate it and provide a link. The
webbing is very strong, the buckle's can be a weak point, the "J" hooks can
slip off pretty easy.

Wayne

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> Dave,
>
> > I dispensed with the rope altogether and used manufactured webbing with
> > hooks and a buckle (Home depot variety).
> >
>
> well, you might want to read Aviation Cinsumer's article on testing this
> kind of stuff. Summarized best as: That kind of hardware is often the
> weakest link by a huge margin.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>

[Justin Case]

Is that a good phone number? And is there anything on the web about
it? I Ain't paying $12.00 to Belvoir for the article. Thanks


On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:46:47 GMT, "Maule Driver"
> wrote:

>Thanks for all the feedback to my 6/20 post where I asked for recommendations for portable tiedown stakes.
>
>I decided to buy "The Claw" from Hunting Solutions in Pearl MS.681-932-5832. The set received a good review in the latest issue of Aviation Consumer. It seemed to address most of the shortcomings of other systems.
>
>The set is packaged in a nice cloth carrying case. It consists of 3 'claws', 9 stakes, one length of rope and a small claw hammer. I'm impressed with the well thought out design and the packaging. The weight is aprox 9lbs according to my bathroom scale. The price was $119 + 10 for UPS shipping.
>
>I assume it will work as well as the Consumer review and I'm satisfied at this point. It seems worth the price.
>
>

[Maule Driver]

No, I purposely put up a bad number, Don't know, That's fine with me. Bye.

"Justin Case" > wrote in message
...
> Is that a good phone number? And is there anything on the web about
> it? I Ain't paying $12.00 to Belvoir for the article. Thanks
>
>
> On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:46:47 GMT, "Maule Driver"
> > wrote:
>
> >Thanks for all the feedback to my 6/20 post where I asked for
recommendations for portable tiedown stakes.
> >
> >I decided to buy "The Claw" from Hunting Solutions in Pearl
MS.681-932-5832. The set received a good review in the latest issue of
Aviation Consumer. It seemed to address most of the shortcomings of other
systems.
> >
> >The set is packaged in a nice cloth carrying case. It consists of 3
'claws', 9 stakes, one length of rope and a small claw hammer. I'm
impressed with the well thought out design and the packaging. The weight is
aprox 9lbs according to my bathroom scale. The price was $119 + 10 for UPS
shipping.
> >
> >I assume it will work as well as the Consumer review and I'm satisfied at
this point. It seems worth the price.
> >
> >
>

[Justin Case]

I only asked because the number didn't work for me. Well, I didn't
want to wait any longer so I constructed my own patterned after ones I
found on the net. Given the construction time involved, it was not a
money saver. $125.00 isn't a bad price to pay for a nice set of
tiedowns.

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:06:09 GMT, "Maule Driver"
> wrote:

>No, I purposely put up a bad number, Don't know, That's fine with me. Bye.
>
>"Justin Case" > wrote in message
...
>> Is that a good phone number? And is there anything on the web about
>> it? I Ain't paying $12.00 to Belvoir for the article. Thanks
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:46:47 GMT, "Maule Driver"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Thanks for all the feedback to my 6/20 post where I asked for
>recommendations for portable tiedown stakes.
>> >
>> >I decided to buy "The Claw" from Hunting Solutions in Pearl
>MS.681-932-5832. The set received a good review in the latest issue of
>Aviation Consumer. It seemed to address most of the shortcomings of other
>systems.
>> >
>> >The set is packaged in a nice cloth carrying case. It consists of 3
>'claws', 9 stakes, one length of rope and a small claw hammer. I'm
>impressed with the well thought out design and the packaging. The weight is
>aprox 9lbs according to my bathroom scale. The price was $119 + 10 for UPS
>shipping.
>> >
>> >I assume it will work as well as the Consumer review and I'm satisfied at
>this point. It seems worth the price.
>> >
>> >
>>
>

[Maule Driver]

Sorry for the abrupt response.

My fault on the number - the correct one is 601-932-5832.

I did an informal test of the unit. Found that most difficult looking dirt
around the airport and drove one of them in. It was easy to insert though
it took a few minutes. I was impressed by it's apparent holding strength.
I was impressed with the design and the execution. The slightly modified
claw hammer and the carry bag were nice touches. It comes with instructions
that are simple, easy to overlook, but that should be followed.

Funny thing about portable tiedowns - for most pilots it is a less than once
a year requirement. But it only takes one incident to convince one of the
importance. Sometimes it is worse than lost equipment - I had an
acquantance killed by an a/c that flipped on him due to a dust devil.

Regarding Belvoir pubs. Of all their pubs, I've found Aviation Consumer to
be the most easily cost justified. Given the cost of most aviation related
items, making just one correct aviation purchase decision, or avoiding one
incorrect decision, can easily pay for the subscription. The fact that the
entire pub is available online addresses the filing and storage issue.

"Justin Case" > wrote in message
> I only asked because the number didn't work for me. Well, I didn't
> want to wait any longer so I constructed my own patterned after ones I
> found on the net. Given the construction time involved, it was not a
> money saver. $125.00 isn't a bad price to pay for a nice set of
> tiedowns.
>
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:06:09 GMT, "Maule Driver"
> > wrote:
>
> >No, I purposely put up a bad number, Don't know, That's fine with me.
Bye.
> >
> >"Justin Case" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Is that a good phone number? And is there anything on the web about
> >> it? I Ain't paying $12.00 to Belvoir for the article. Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:46:47 GMT, "Maule Driver"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Thanks for all the feedback to my 6/20 post where I asked for
> >recommendations for portable tiedown stakes.
> >> >
> >> >I decided to buy "The Claw" from Hunting Solutions in Pearl
> >MS.681-932-5832. The set received a good review in the latest issue of
> >Aviation Consumer. It seemed to address most of the shortcomings of
other
> >systems.
> >> >
> >> >The set is packaged in a nice cloth carrying case. It consists of 3
> >'claws', 9 stakes, one length of rope and a small claw hammer. I'm
> >impressed with the well thought out design and the packaging. The weight
is
> >aprox 9lbs according to my bathroom scale. The price was $119 + 10 for
UPS
> >shipping.
> >> >
> >> >I assume it will work as well as the Consumer review and I'm satisfied
at
> >this point. It seems worth the price.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

[Mike Z.]

I just built some close to the EAA plans with a little scrap and the rod and u-bolts from Home Depot for about $20. Plus rope and
the hammer of course.
http://www.vintageaircraft.org/magazine/aircraft_tiedown.pdf

It helps to have access to a vise and a die set of course.

Mike

"Justin Case" > wrote in message ...
> I only asked because the number didn't work for me. Well, I didn't
> want to wait any longer so I constructed my own patterned after ones I
> found on the net. Given the construction time involved, it was not a
> money saver. $125.00 isn't a bad price to pay for a nice set of
> tiedowns.
>

[Ron Natalie]

"Maule Driver" > wrote in message . com...

> Aviation Consumer tests resulted in the Claw failing in one case by pulling
> out a large plug of dirt (presumably funnel shaped). When pulled at an
> angle, it failed by breaking one of the arms. Failure occurred at 500lbs
> (straight up) and 475lbs (at unspecified angle). They stressed that tiedown
> strength varies significantly by soil type.

That's not a very good recommendation. 500 lbs is hardly enough.

[Wayne]

We made the EAA ones last year and they worked great but as for total
holding power, the further apart the stakes are, the larger the funnel shape
would be and the heavier right? I think either would be stronger than the
screw type and you could always use longer rods for softer soil. 500 lbs
straight up times three seems like quite a bit of hold down to me. Also I'd
think that if there were a storm so large at an event like Oshkosh, the
planes that weren't tied down at all and the ones that weren't tied well
would be tossed into the ones that stayed put anyway causing plenty of
damage. A friend of mine sold his 172 and where it was after the sale had a
big storm hit. The planes were all tied down to a tensioned cable going
across the apron. The planes all clumped together and flopped over still
connected to the cable. These are temporary tie downs we are talking about.

I'd like to see that test as well. Like a chain only as strong as the
weakest link. If one failed, the other would be sure to follow. Last year I
was on the lake on my boat, tied off to several other boats watching a
floating concert. There were about 20 boats tied side by side, several of
them were little ones, then out on the end was two 30 foot pontoon boats. A
storm came up quickly and twisted that line into a J shape, ropes started
breaking, cleats started flying around like mad. Many boats were damaged and
most of their owners had done nothing wrong except allowing one other boat
to be added to the line. My buddies now know why I carry a knife with me
almost all the time, so I can cut free before I get stuck in the middle of a
mess like that.

Wayne


"Maule Driver" > wrote in message
. com...
> The 'Claw' and the EAA design are different. They both use 3 stakes per
> tiedown. The 'Claw' uses a collapsible tripod claw that lies flat on the
> ground with stake holes that guide the stakes inward towards the center.
> The EAA design appears to consist of a plate with stake holes that allow
you
> to drive the stakes outward.
>
> Notably, the 'Claw' specifies that tiedowns should be placed directly
> underneath the tiedown point (which won't work very well on the tail of a
> taildragger). The EAA design specifies that the tiedown should be placed
so
> that the tiedown rope will apply pressure at an angle.
>
> Aviation Consumer tests resulted in the Claw failing in one case by
pulling
> out a large plug of dirt (presumably funnel shaped). When pulled at an
> angle, it failed by breaking one of the arms. Failure occurred at 500lbs
> (straight up) and 475lbs (at unspecified angle). They stressed that
tiedown
> strength varies significantly by soil type.
>
> It would be interesting to compare the 2 systems in identical soils. I
> would guess that the claw would be stronger in a straight up pull but have
> no opinion on an angle pull.
>
> Hope I never have to care.
>
> "Mike Z." > wrote in message
> ...
> > I just built some close to the EAA plans with a little scrap and the rod
> and u-bolts from Home Depot for about $20. Plus rope and
> > the hammer of course.
> > http://www.vintageaircraft.org/magazine/aircraft_tiedown.pdf
> >
> > It helps to have access to a vise and a die set of course.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > "Justin Case" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > I only asked because the number didn't work for me. Well, I didn't
> > > want to wait any longer so I constructed my own patterned after ones I
> > > found on the net. Given the construction time involved, it was not a
> > > money saver. $125.00 isn't a bad price to pay for a nice set of
> > > tiedowns.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Thomas Borchert]

Ron,

> That's not a very good recommendation. 500 lbs is hardly enough.
>

They specifically said the soil was not very good and the numbers not
comparable to their tests with other systems. However, the spiral type
things are worse in any case, according to AvCon.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Maule Driver]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message news:3f15d088$0$24566
> > Aviation Consumer tests resulted in ...failure occurred at 500lbs
> > (straight up) and 475lbs (at unspecified angle). They stressed that
tiedown
> > strength varies significantly by soil type.
>
> That's not a very good recommendation. 500 lbs is hardly enough.

I agree and so did AC. I think they said a tiedown should be worth 1600 or
2600lbs.

The big question is what can we get from the best 'temporary, installable,
removable' tiedowns? And who makes/designs the best?

Fortunately, I suspect that most pilots, most of the time, are not faced
with having to use temporary tiedowns. The big fly-ins being the big
exception.

OTOH, when I used to fly soaring competitions, there was the need to setup
temporary tiedowns at many airport locations for 5 to 10 days at a time. I
managed it by first, NEVER keeping the ship assembled overnight. Obviously
a glider-only option but one that not everyone exercised. The trailers they
were stored in were beautifully engineered and it was possible to roll them
over without damage to the a/c.

I justified the daily assembly work and the risk of mis-assembly by thinking
1) Any damage means losing the comp and 2) weather is not the only risk -
cars driving around darkened airports where 50' wingspan a/c are parked in
non-standard locations are another. How often do cars hit a/c at the big
fly-ins?

Once the glider is 'in the box' (covered trailer), the question then becomes
how to tiedown the trailer. I never did have a very effective tiedown
system and too often the trailer was vulnerable but there were other
options. Leaving it attached to a vehicle is one. Parking it next to a
building and tieing off there was another. Permanent tiedowns were
sometimes available.

Many of us felt pretty secure with the bird in the box. But I always
remember pics from a comp in Chester SC back in the 70s where a mini-tornado
or downburst of sorts tore thru the line. A half dozen glider, in and out
of trailers as I recall, were thrown around thru the woods. The rest of the
line was almost untouched.