Ack! My ACK!

[MikeremlaP]

Am wondering if there's a design flaw in the ACK E-01 ELT or just an anomaly?
Our unit went off by itself today because the battery in the remote panel mount
indicator died, triggering the ELT, and I'd like to know if anyone else has had
this happen?

If a dying battery in the remote ***always*** sets off the ELT, then this is a
design flaw. Everyone's ACK will eventually false alarm if the remote battery
isn't replaced on time. (And you know how we are with smoke detectors...)
Hmmm... maybe this explains all the false alarms CAP complains about?
-----------------------------------------------
I got a call from the airport today. They said the ELT from our plane in the
hangar was transmitting as of this morning.

That's strange. We last flew a few days ago. No ELT then. (The landings
haven't been THAT hard.) What could've happened?

In disbelief, I drove to the hangar, expecting this to be a false report. (Not
even sure how they could receive a signal, since the hangar makes a pretty good
shield. Turns out the CAP hangar is nearby, and they picked it up as they
taxied by.)

I unlocked the plane, and checked the panel indicator for the ELT. No flashing
LED showing activation. I punched the "Reset" button anyway. And then I
punched the "On" button. Hmmm... no flashing LED.

So I pulled out the handheld, and tuned 121.5. Sure enough, there was an ELT
signal, loud and clear. I hit the hard switch on our ACK, and that stopped it.

I pulled the remote, and sure enough, the 6v Lithium battery is down to 2v.

I'd like to know if anyone else had this same problem, where a dying battery in
the panel remote triggers the ELT? It could simply be an anomaly. But if a
sizeable number of you have had this happen, then it's a design flaw.

But you might not know it happened if someone doesn't alert you that your ELT
has triggered. If the CAP wasn't nearby, I suspect our ELT would have drained
itself down to zero, and I would have blissfully flown around for the next year
(time to annual) thinking the ELT was functional. (It's not like there's a
"Checklist" item, to test the ELT before every flight. But in light of this I
think I'll make a monthly item on my Palm Pilot.)

So if you have an ACK ELT, you may wish to check it from the panel mounted
remote to make sure everything is working.

FYI, I installed the Lithium battery in August 1999, and expected it to last
until 2004. (I don't know if there's any current drain on it when the ELT is
in standby.) But it quit almost 4 years to the month, in 2003. My new
replacement cycle will be every 3 years now.

Hope this helps,

Mike Palmer <><
Excellence in Ergonomics

[JDupre5762]

>Am wondering if there's a design flaw in the ACK E-01 ELT or just an anomaly?
>
>Our unit went off by itself today because the battery in the remote panel
>mount
>indicator died, triggering the ELT, and I'd like to know if anyone else
>has had
>this happen?

I haven't heard of this before but will check any ACK ELT in any aircraft I
inspect. However I thought that regardless of the battery replacement date on
an ACK ELT transmitter that the batteries still had to be replaced every two
years regardless. Am I wrong. If I am right then replacing the transmitter
and remote batteries at the same time would keep that problem from happening.

Have you ever had problems with battery leakage in an ACK ELT. I have heard of
a number of cases.

John Dupre'

[Jim Weir]

(JDupre5762)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->an ACK ELT transmitter that the batteries still had to be replaced every two
->years regardless. Am I wrong. If I am right then replacing the transmitter
->and remote batteries at the same time would keep that problem from happening.

You are wrong. The Duracell batteries that the TSO requires has an expiration
date printed on the side of the battery. The expiration date for the batteries
is the printed date. There IS no remote battery replacement requirement.



->
->Have you ever had problems with battery leakage in an ACK ELT. I have heard of
->a number of cases.

Please document. I've heard of a number of JDupre inspection errors. I believe
nothing without documentation.

Jim
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[MikeremlaP]

My understanding is that the battery due date in the main unit is determined by
the expiration date of the Duracell batteries inside. (Presumably, the 1st day
of the month listed.) I stick a sticker with that month/year on the ELT body
and make a note in the logbook.

As for the remote unit, I'm not sure how to handle that. The replacement
battery I bought for it today (an Alkaline - couldn't find a Lithium) has no
expiration date that I can find, even though it's a Duracell brand. I'm not
sure when it was manufactured either, so I don't know how long it has to live.

I plan to make an entry in our Maintenance spread sheet to replace it in two
years. (Would have been three if Lithium.)

Nor am I sure about requirements for a logbook entry for it and a sticker for
it. (IIRC, ACK didn't supply any for the remote when we bought our unit.) It
might be that the remote is considered part of the "ELT" as a system, and
requires the same documentation as the ELT proper. OTOH, since there's no
expiration date (that I can find) for the remote battery, maybe the remote is
an area conveniently overlooked by the regulators as being "distinct" from the
ELT. (The ELT will still work without a battery in the remote.) I suppose the
most prudent way to proceed is to make a sticker and a log book entry and a
guess on the replacement date.

As for practical replacement of the main batteries - yes, I was alerted by
another ACK user that the batteries in his unit leaked, even though well short
of the expiration date. I checked ours, and found the same. (Duracells.) I
cleaned everything out, and now make it a point to physically remove the
batteries at ever annual and also replace them prophylacticly 50% to their
expiration date.

This isn't the first time I've had Duracells leak - happened in a MAG
flashlight too. I live in hot Phoenix, so if not a design flaw, perhaps our
heat has something to do with it. (User that had his leak lived in higher
(cooler) country in Arizona.)

>Have you ever had problems with battery leakage in an ACK ELT. I have heard
>of number of cases.

Hope this helps,

Mike Palmer <><
Excellence in Ergonomics

[J. Severyn]

The replacement time for the remote panel is not very explicit compared to
the main unit.

The main unit batteries must be replaced "upon reaching the date marked upon
each cell" (page 1 of installation and operation manual 08-12-98).

For the remote unit, page 7 states "under normal operating conditions the
lithium battery must be replaced every eight years. Alkaline type
cells....may be used in place of the lithium cell. Under normal operating
conditions the alkaline battery must be replaced every four years." (notice
no reference to a date marked on the cell regarding the remote panel unit).


John Severyn
N24495

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
> (JDupre5762)
> shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:
>
> ->an ACK ELT transmitter that the batteries still had to be replaced every
two
> ->years regardless. Am I wrong. If I am right then replacing the
transmitter
> ->and remote batteries at the same time would keep that problem from
happening.
>
> You are wrong. The Duracell batteries that the TSO requires has an
expiration
> date printed on the side of the battery. The expiration date for the
batteries
> is the printed date. There IS no remote battery replacement requirement.
>
>

[John Clear]

In article >,
MikeremlaP > wrote:
>
>If a dying battery in the remote ***always*** sets off the ELT, then this is a
>design flaw. Everyone's ACK will eventually false alarm if the remote battery
>isn't replaced on time. (And you know how we are with smoke detectors...)
>Hmmm... maybe this explains all the false alarms CAP complains about?

I've chased dying main batteries in ELTs before, an EPIRB that was
ten years out of date, a fax machine and a UPS truck. There are
a myriad of ways to produce false alarms on 121.5mhz. Searching
for 121.5 signals is so pointless IMO that I don't even go out on
121.5 only searches any more unless there is an ALNOT (ALert NOTice
for missing/overdue plane).

So in terms of extra work for CAP, this is just a small factor
among all the others.

Having no signal from the remote switch trigger the ELT is probably
done on purpose as a 'fail safe'. Since there is a high propability
that in an actual emegancy, the cable between the remote and the
ELT will break,it is reasonable to activate the ELT on loss of
signal from the remote. I know nothing about the actual design of
the ELT in question, so this is just speculation on my part.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.panix.com/~jac

[John Clonts]

"John Clear" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> MikeremlaP > wrote:
> >
> >If a dying battery in the remote ***always*** sets off the ELT, then this
is a
> >design flaw. Everyone's ACK will eventually false alarm if the remote
battery
> >isn't replaced on time. (And you know how we are with smoke
detectors...)
> >Hmmm... maybe this explains all the false alarms CAP complains about?
>
> I've chased dying main batteries in ELTs before, an EPIRB that was
> ten years out of date, a fax machine and a UPS truck. There are

An ELT on a fax machine!!!???

[Bill Hale]

(MikeremlaP) wrote in message >...
> Am wondering if there's a design flaw in the ACK E-01 ELT or just an anomaly?
> Our unit went off by itself today because the battery in the remote panel mount
> indicator died, triggering the ELT, and I'd like to know if anyone else has had
> this happen?

Ack-Ack! You sure drew the flak!

Your posting is really useful. One would have to guess that this
is at least a design oversight... com'on, Jim & defenders, having
the remote battery die set off the thing can't be considered good
practice!

At any rate, thanks for posting. Since the intervals for the main
batterys and the remote are different, it's easy to get messed up.
As the consequence isn't good, I'm going to make a habit of replacing
the remote every time I replace the main D-cells which is a fairly
long interval.

If everyone took this position, some ugly future AD might be avoided.

Thanks for the post, Mike. A good use of the Internet!! Bill Hale
--whose flashlights runneth over with NOS D-cells.

ps: Now where do we find the little li cells?
>

[J. Severyn]

"Bill Hale" > wrote in message
om...
> ps: Now where do we find the little li cells?

Wal-Mart carries them....in the camera department.....or most camera stores.

John Severyn
N24495

[MikeremlaP]

>At any rate, thanks for posting. Since the intervals for the main
>batterys and the remote are different, it's easy to get messed up.
>As the consequence isn't good, I'm going to make a habit of replacing
>the remote every time I replace the main D-cells which is a fairly
>long interval.

Actually, you may want to do this the other way around. Duracell D batteries
are living longer and longer - I installed new main batteries in the ELT this
year that expire in 5 years. Whereas the Alkaline remote battery I installed is
supposed to be replaced every 4 years according to ACK. (And I plan to replace
ours every two, to avoid this problem again, especially since there's no
expiration date on the remote battery, and we don't know how long it's been
sitting on the store shelf.)

The problem is, hardly anyone ever sees the expiration sticker on the remote
(and we DON'T want the FAA mandating that we have yet another sticker on the
panel). It's the sticker on the main unit that usually triggers our memory -
and the one mechanics look at.

So it seems the better practice would be to lower the expiration date of your
main batteries to two years, and leave a note on your ELT sticker reminding you
that there is also a battery in the remote that needs replacing.

Hope this helps,

Mike Palmer <><
Excellence in Ergonomics

[MikeremlaP]

>> ps: Now where do we find the little li cells?

I found mine at Fry's Electronics. They used to carry the Lithium version, but
all I could find this time at my local store was the Alkaline.

HTH,

Mike Palmer <><
Excellence in Ergonomics