Article in flying Mag

[Jeff]

Has anyone read the new flying magazine?
There is an article in it about a guy in a bonanza who crashed doing an
instrument approach using a hand held non-aviation GPS, but whats worse
is his maint. on his airplane, putting tape over the gas tank when he
lost his gas cap and so on.

I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
of chances.

[Jay Honeck]

> I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
> of chances.

I've not personally witnessed any of the kind outlined in the article.

However, I see enough pilots simply jump in and go -- without so much as
checking the oil or looking in the gas tanks -- to understand how this sort
of thing happens.

Complacency kills.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[JDupre5762]

>Has anyone read the new flying magazine?
>There is an article in it about a guy in a bonanza who crashed doing an
>instrument approach using a hand held non-aviation GPS, but whats worse
>is his maint. on his airplane, putting tape over the gas tank when he
>lost his gas cap and so on.

>I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
>of chances.

I think more than we know. I work at a large general aviation field now but
when I worked at smaller more outlying fields I used to see all kinds of silly
and outright dangerous actions by pilots and mechanics alike. Just plain
neglect of maintenance and good flying practice were the most common. Flying
without preflighting was seen pretty regularly and usually by the same pilots.
Failure to perform Airworthiness Directives is probably the most common
maintenance fault. We have one occasional customer flying an Aerostar who
boasted to one of the mechanics that since his last annual cost him over
$30,000 dollars he was going to wait a few years before he had another. We
once got a look at his logbooks and there was at least no entry for an annual
for three years!
I suppose he could have had the annuals done and recorded separately from the
logbooks but I can't see a reputable shop doing that.

John Dupre'

[Newps]

Jeff wrote:

> Has anyone read the new flying magazine?
> There is an article in it about a guy in a bonanza who crashed doing an
> instrument approach using a hand held non-aviation GPS, but whats worse
> is his maint. on his airplane, putting tape over the gas tank when he
> lost his gas cap and so on.
>
> I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
> of chances.

I know of about a dozen within 50 miles of where I live. They are
everywhere. Go to any airport and wander around.

[BTIZ]

This months report is FLYING mag is a repeat of a report that I read in
another Aviation Mag, I can't find it right now, but it was either AOPA or
Pvt Pilot. The "first" article was much more detailed, described the same
"non-maint" issues right down to the radio shop and the duct tape gas cap.

but to answer the question. Yes there are people and aircraft out there like
that, and they are not policed. Even internally, people hate to "Squeal" on
others, "as long as it does not affect me" syndrome. Sadly, it does effect
them, either through higher insurance costs, or maintenance shops that go
out of business when they get "Sued" for allowing an aircraft to fly, even
if it was 3 yrs since it was in his shop.

BT

"Jeff" > wrote in message ...
> Has anyone read the new flying magazine?
> There is an article in it about a guy in a bonanza who crashed doing an
> instrument approach using a hand held non-aviation GPS, but whats worse
> is his maint. on his airplane, putting tape over the gas tank when he
> lost his gas cap and so on.
>
> I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
> of chances.
>
>

[Ray Andraka]

I also saw the article. I think it was in IFR refresher last month.

BTIZ wrote:

> This months report is FLYING mag is a repeat of a report that I read in
> another Aviation Mag, I can't find it right now, but it was either AOPA or
> Pvt Pilot. The "first" article was much more detailed, described the same
> "non-maint" issues right down to the radio shop and the duct tape gas cap.
>
> but to answer the question. Yes there are people and aircraft out there like
> that, and they are not policed. Even internally, people hate to "Squeal" on
> others, "as long as it does not affect me" syndrome. Sadly, it does effect
> them, either through higher insurance costs, or maintenance shops that go
> out of business when they get "Sued" for allowing an aircraft to fly, even
> if it was 3 yrs since it was in his shop.
>
> BT
>
> "Jeff" > wrote in message ...
> > Has anyone read the new flying magazine?
> > There is an article in it about a guy in a bonanza who crashed doing an
> > instrument approach using a hand held non-aviation GPS, but whats worse
> > is his maint. on his airplane, putting tape over the gas tank when he
> > lost his gas cap and so on.
> >
> > I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
> > of chances.
> >
> >

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Dan Luke]

"Jeff" wrote:
> I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
> of chances.

There are a few around here. One in particular is notorious. Once, after he
curled the prop tips on his airplane by "not quite" landing it gear up, he
sawed off the tips with a hack saw and flew home. He has made at least one
other gear-up landing, as well, and usually does not bother to tie his
airplane down.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[C J Campbell]

"Jeff" > wrote in message ...
| Has anyone read the new flying magazine?
| There is an article in it about a guy in a bonanza who crashed doing an
| instrument approach using a hand held non-aviation GPS, but whats worse
| is his maint. on his airplane, putting tape over the gas tank when he
| lost his gas cap and so on.
|

The interesting thing about that article was the NTSB's assertion that the
reason he crashed was because he did not file a flight plan. I have never
heard of this being given as the cause of a crash before (except in the news
media, of course).

[C J Campbell]

"Jeff" > wrote in message ...
| Has anyone read the new flying magazine?
| There is an article in it about a guy in a bonanza who crashed doing an
| instrument approach using a hand held non-aviation GPS, but whats worse
| is his maint. on his airplane, putting tape over the gas tank when he
| lost his gas cap and so on.
|
| I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
| of chances.
|
|

Of course, when one of these bozos crashes, it is the manufacturer that gets
sued, probably by the idiot's own family.

[Jeff]

....your serious..a guy sawed off the tips of his prop and then flew the plane
again?

Dan Luke wrote:

> "Jeff" wrote:
> > I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
> > of chances.
>
> There are a few around here. One in particular is notorious. Once, after he
> curled the prop tips on his airplane by "not quite" landing it gear up, he
> sawed off the tips with a hack saw and flew home. He has made at least one
> other gear-up landing, as well, and usually does not bother to tie his
> airplane down.
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM

[Dan Luke]

"Jeff" wrote:
> ...your serious..a guy sawed off the tips of his prop and then flew the
plane
> again?

I'm completely serious. There were numerous witnesses.

There are other wild tales about this guy, but less well documented so I
won't repeat them here.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[BTIZ]

yea... that was it..

BT

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> I also saw the article. I think it was in IFR refresher last month.
>
> BTIZ wrote:
>
> > This months report is FLYING mag is a repeat of a report that I read in
> > another Aviation Mag, I can't find it right now, but it was either AOPA
or
> > Pvt Pilot. The "first" article was much more detailed, described the
same
> > "non-maint" issues right down to the radio shop and the duct tape gas
cap.
> >
> > but to answer the question. Yes there are people and aircraft out there
like
> > that, and they are not policed. Even internally, people hate to "Squeal"
on
> > others, "as long as it does not affect me" syndrome. Sadly, it does
effect
> > them, either through higher insurance costs, or maintenance shops that
go
> > out of business when they get "Sued" for allowing an aircraft to fly,
even
> > if it was 3 yrs since it was in his shop.
> >
> > BT
> >
> > "Jeff" > wrote in message
...
> > > Has anyone read the new flying magazine?
> > > There is an article in it about a guy in a bonanza who crashed doing
an
> > > instrument approach using a hand held non-aviation GPS, but whats
worse
> > > is his maint. on his airplane, putting tape over the gas tank when he
> > > lost his gas cap and so on.
> > >
> > > I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these
kind
> > > of chances.
> > >
> > >
>
> --
> --Ray Andraka, P.E.
> President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
> 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
> email
> http://www.andraka.com
>
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> -Benjamin Franklin, 1759
>
>

[clyde woempner]

Yes, they are out there, and these folks don't help GA.
Clyde

"Jeff" > wrote in message ...
> Has anyone read the new flying magazine?
> There is an article in it about a guy in a bonanza who crashed doing an
> instrument approach using a hand held non-aviation GPS, but whats worse
> is his maint. on his airplane, putting tape over the gas tank when he
> lost his gas cap and so on.
>
> I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
> of chances.
>
>

[Thomas Borchert]

Newps,

> So we found a wheel chock and a mallet.
>

Well, I would walk away rather than being part in something like that.
I sure think aviation is over-regulated, but that'S a major Forrest
Gump moment: Stupid is as stupid does.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Dylan Smith]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:55:24 GMT, Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
>> of chances.
>
>I've not personally witnessed any of the kind outlined in the article.
>
>However, I see enough pilots simply jump in and go -- without so much as
>checking the oil or looking in the gas tanks -- to understand how this sort
>of thing happens.

There was a Beech Duke at Houston Gulf. I swear that the guy who flew
it (about once every four months) wouldn't have noticed if the right
wing was missing beyond the engine nascelle (until he tried to rotate
of course). The plane had a LOT of defects which were readily apparent
to the most cursory inspection, including some very bad corrosion
on the vertical stab.

There was another at SPX too, who crashed a Bonanza on his third attempt
to get in on the ILS into Hobby (the weather was too bad). On his third
attempt he ran out of gas. This was a Bo with the tip tanks, too. He
ended up crashing into a house. The only thing he did right is control
the aircraft all the way to impact. Somehow he survived with only minor
injuries. He had delusions of rebuilding the plane too (and from what I
saw there wasn't an unbent piece of metal left).

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[John Galban]

Newps > wrote in message news:<vaWSa.115114$H17.35404@sccrnsc02>...
> Last month a buddy taxiied his J-5 into a hole, a seriously big hole.
> One prop tip was bent about 30 degrees back from straight, the other
> just had the paint scraped. So we found a wheel chock and a mallet.
> With a couple guys holding onto the prop, another holding the chock
> against the back of the prop the other guy whacked on the prop until it
> was more or less straight. Then he flew home. I wouldn't call this
> uncommon.

That must be a Montana thing. I met a guy at the Spotted Bear
backcountry strip who was lucky enough to have had just enough
altitude to glide there. His crank had snapped over the adjacent
Wilderness Area. Turns out he'd taxied into a snowbank a few months
prior. When I talked to him, he still hadn't made the connection
between his prop strike and the broken crank on his Champ.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Dan Luke]

"Dylan Smith" wrote:
> There was a Beech Duke at Houston Gulf. I swear that the guy who flew
> it (about once every four months) wouldn't have noticed if the right
> wing was missing beyond the engine nascelle (until he tried to rotate
> of course). The plane had a LOT of defects which were readily apparent
> to the most cursory inspection, including some very bad corrosion
> on the vertical stab.

There's a Cardinal at one of our local fields with corrosion so bad there
are actually holes in it. I hear its tail number on CTAF once in a while.

This kind of thing is not too uncommon, apparently. It's a wonder these
aircraft don't show up in the accident reports more often.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[TTA Cherokee Driver]

Jeff wrote:

> Has anyone read the new flying magazine?
> There is an article in it about a guy in a bonanza who crashed doing an
> instrument approach using a hand held non-aviation GPS, but whats worse
> is his maint. on his airplane, putting tape over the gas tank when he
> lost his gas cap and so on.
>
> I wonder if there are many people out there who actually take these kind
> of chances.
>

I assume you're talking about the Aftermath column. IMO that column is
worth the price of the magazine alone.

Read it long enough and you'll soon learn there are lots of people like
that out there. Some of the pilots whose crashes are profiled in there
are so stupid it almost makes you feel complacent because you know you
would never do that. For example, the guy who tried to fly an
overloaded Warrior from Reno to Denver without completing his club
checkout, and oh btw he was also on Meth when he and his friends went
into a lake. Or the farmer who had no logbooks for his 172, kept it in
a barn, never did maintanence, used tractor gas in it and didn't have a
valid medical. Or the welder who fixed his own engine block to save money.

But as you get that complacent, then they come out with one that makes
you gasp and realize that could be you if you don't keep your safety
edge. Like the midair between an experienced and a student pilot who
were both talking to (and trusting) the same class D controller who lost
track of them in the haze. Or the guy who went down because it was
Sunday, he had to get back home on Monday, and the weather was OK when
he took off but it just got progressively and slowly worse and by the
time it was no longer VFR he was trapped with no way out. Or the
professional pilots who got complacent and lost focus on the "easy"
short last leg of a long flight home.

Mike
--
PP-ASEL
PA28-161
http://www.wingsofcarolina.org
Note: email invalid. Respond on newsgroup

[Roy Smith]

TTA Cherokee Driver > wrote:
> Or the farmer who had no logbooks for his 172, kept it in a barn,
> never did maintanence, used tractor gas in it and didn't have a
> valid medical.

Of those, the only one which really impacts safety is the lack of
maintanence.

[Newps]

You guys worry too much. I've got some great pictures of all these
hands working on that prop.

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> Newps,
>
>
>>So we found a wheel chock and a mallet.
>>
>
>
> Well, I would walk away rather than being part in something like that.
> I sure think aviation is over-regulated, but that'S a major Forrest
> Gump moment: Stupid is as stupid does.
>

[Newps]

Yep, another friend did that in his Cub after taxiing into a taxiway
light. Just goosed it and flew 10 miles home. Said it ran a little rough.

Dylan Smith wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:33:04 -0700, Jeff > wrote:
>
>>...your serious..a guy sawed off the tips of his prop and then flew the plane
>>again?
>
>
> Don't worry, we had this happen with a club Beech Sierra. The guy didn't
> even bother doing that - he just flew home with curled prop tips!
>

[Newps]

Yeah, it may be a western thing, but I doubt it. These people are
everwywhere. When I went to Johnson Creek a couple years ago there was
a 182 that was parked waiting for a new engine. After startup something
broke. All the oil leaked out on the ground where he was parked, he saw
this later. He took off with no oil. After getting about 200 feet in
the air he notices no oil pressure so returns and lands. After landing
and parking the prop spins down like a turbo prop. Takes forever to
stop. Finds out the crankshaft had snapped in two. If you've ever been
to Johnson Creek you know what a bad deal this could have been.

John Galban wrote:

> Newps > wrote in message news:<vaWSa.115114$H17.35404@sccrnsc02>...
>
>>Last month a buddy taxiied his J-5 into a hole, a seriously big hole.
>>One prop tip was bent about 30 degrees back from straight, the other
>>just had the paint scraped. So we found a wheel chock and a mallet.
>>With a couple guys holding onto the prop, another holding the chock
>>against the back of the prop the other guy whacked on the prop until it
>>was more or less straight. Then he flew home. I wouldn't call this
>>uncommon.
>
>
> That must be a Montana thing. I met a guy at the Spotted Bear
> backcountry strip who was lucky enough to have had just enough
> altitude to glide there. His crank had snapped over the adjacent
> Wilderness Area. Turns out he'd taxied into a snowbank a few months
> prior. When I talked to him, he still hadn't made the connection
> between his prop strike and the broken crank on his Champ.
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Jeff]

from what I understand about propellers, they are what makes the plane go,
they turn at a very high RPM and are suppose to be balanced. during
preflight you check for cracks, dings and any other problems that may
cause a problem. I would consider a bent (more or less) prop a problem.

The thing with aviation is we are suppose to be responsible people, we
learn what to do and not to do, we are suppose to check ourselves. you can
get away with alot if thats what your wanting to do. But where it catches
up with you is when you least expect it.

Thomas Borchert wrote:

> Newps,
>
> > So we found a wheel chock and a mallet.
> >
>
> Well, I would walk away rather than being part in something like that.
> I sure think aviation is over-regulated, but that'S a major Forrest
> Gump moment: Stupid is as stupid does.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jeff]

Yes I know they are everywhere, I read the NTSB reports alot. I like the one recently where
the guy had an engine failure, he landed just fine in a farmers field, after landing, he
restarted the plane, took off, at around 200 ft, plane lost power, rolled, crashed, he died

Newps wrote:

> Yeah, it may be a western thing, but I doubt it. These people are
> everwywhere. When I went to Johnson Creek a couple years ago there was
> a 182 that was parked waiting for a new engine. After startup something
> broke. All the oil leaked out on the ground where he was parked, he saw
> this later. He took off with no oil. After getting about 200 feet in
> the air he notices no oil pressure so returns and lands. After landing
> and parking the prop spins down like a turbo prop. Takes forever to
> stop. Finds out the crankshaft had snapped in two. If you've ever been
> to Johnson Creek you know what a bad deal this could have been.
>
> John Galban wrote:
>
> > Newps > wrote in message news:<vaWSa.115114$H17.35404@sccrnsc02>...
> >
> >>Last month a buddy taxiied his J-5 into a hole, a seriously big hole.
> >>One prop tip was bent about 30 degrees back from straight, the other
> >>just had the paint scraped. So we found a wheel chock and a mallet.
> >>With a couple guys holding onto the prop, another holding the chock
> >>against the back of the prop the other guy whacked on the prop until it
> >>was more or less straight. Then he flew home. I wouldn't call this
> >>uncommon.
> >
> >
> > That must be a Montana thing. I met a guy at the Spotted Bear
> > backcountry strip who was lucky enough to have had just enough
> > altitude to glide there. His crank had snapped over the adjacent
> > Wilderness Area. Turns out he'd taxied into a snowbank a few months
> > prior. When I talked to him, he still hadn't made the connection
> > between his prop strike and the broken crank on his Champ.
> >
> > John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Ron Garrison]

It's not just the bent prop I would be worried about. It takes a serious
jolt to bend a big piece of aluminum like that, and engines don't like that
kind of (mis)treatment. Is anyone aware of ANY aircraft engines that don't
require a serious inspection after a prop strike?

"Jeff" > wrote in message ...
> from what I understand about propellers, they are what makes the plane go,
> they turn at a very high RPM and are suppose to be balanced. during
> preflight you check for cracks, dings and any other problems that may
> cause a problem. I would consider a bent (more or less) prop a problem.
>
> The thing with aviation is we are suppose to be responsible people, we
> learn what to do and not to do, we are suppose to check ourselves. you can
> get away with alot if thats what your wanting to do. But where it catches
> up with you is when you least expect it.
>
> Thomas Borchert wrote:
>
> > Newps,
> >
> > > So we found a wheel chock and a mallet.
> > >
> >
> > Well, I would walk away rather than being part in something like that.
> > I sure think aviation is over-regulated, but that'S a major Forrest
> > Gump moment: Stupid is as stupid does.
> >
> > --
> > Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>

[Thomas Borchert]

Newps,

> Yep, another friend
>

You gotta get thinking about what kind of friends you have... ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Ron Natalie]

"Ron Garrison" > wrote in message . com...
> It's not just the bent prop I would be worried about. It takes a serious
> jolt to bend a big piece of aluminum like that, and engines don't like that
> kind of (mis)treatment. Is anyone aware of ANY aircraft engines that don't
> require a serious inspection after a prop strike?

Both Continental and Lycoming require an engine teardown for any propstrike
no matter how minor. My insurance company didn't even bat an eye when I
told them I wanted one.

[John Galban]

Newps > wrote in message >...
> After getting about 200 feet in
> the air he notices no oil pressure so returns and lands. After landing
> and parking the prop spins down like a turbo prop. Takes forever to
> stop. Finds out the crankshaft had snapped in two. If you've ever been
> to Johnson Creek you know what a bad deal this could have been.

I spend a lot of time at Johnson Creek (as a matter of fact I'll be
there in about a week), and I'd have to say I'm very impressed.
Getting a 182 back onto the runway from 200 ft. is something I'd
expect from Bob Hoover. The trees at the end of the runway are damn
near 100 ft. tall.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Ray Andraka]

Several times for me.

Brian Sponcil wrote:

> I suppose that in some strange way it should fill us with confidence to
> know that an airplane, even one so badly corroded it has holes, won't
> likely break up in flight.
>
> Out of curiosity, I wonder how many people have aborted due to the
> preflight inspection (not including run-up)? For myself, I can think of
> at least two times that I cancelled because of what I found under the cowl.
>
> -Brian
> Warrior 33431
> Iowa City, IA
>
> Dan Luke wrote:
>
> > "Dylan Smith" wrote:
> >
> >>There was a Beech Duke at Houston Gulf. I swear that the guy who flew
> >>it (about once every four months) wouldn't have noticed if the right
> >>wing was missing beyond the engine nascelle (until he tried to rotate
> >>of course). The plane had a LOT of defects which were readily apparent
> >>to the most cursory inspection, including some very bad corrosion
> >>on the vertical stab.
> >
> >
> > There's a Cardinal at one of our local fields with corrosion so bad there
> > are actually holes in it. I hear its tail number on CTAF once in a while.
> >
> > This kind of thing is not too uncommon, apparently. It's a wonder these
> > aircraft don't show up in the accident reports more often.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Dennis O'Connor]

Lessee, I have pulled a 10 inch crescent wrench out from on top of a
cylinder on one plane.... Found the rudder linkage completely disconnected
at the tail of another (that one aborted the flight!)... Found the fuel
tanks essentially dry on one when the gauges showed half full (had a little
heart to heart with the fbo on that one)... Had a couple of instances of
fouled plugs on the runup that caused me to change planes rather than wait
on the mechanic...
Ya gotta be alert because they ARE trying to get you...
Denny
"Brian Sponcil" > wrote in message
...


> Out of curiosity, I wonder how many people have aborted due to the
> preflight inspection (not including run-up)?

[Thomas Borchert]

Pete,

Yep. Still ;-) And I added a smiley, too.
--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)