Pricing a '74 Archer

[Mike Noel]

I'm trying to decide what is a fair price for this aircraft. I looked at
the asking price of 74 Archers in Trade-a-Plane and saw prices ranging from
the high 40's to the high 50's. I used the TAP estimator and came up with
about 52K. This plane is in good condition in and out, has older avionics,
an autopilot, com/nav1is an old bendix unit that seems to barely work,
com/nav2 is a newer King unit that seems to work well, it has an ADF, mode
C xponder, 4 place intercom, a King DME, EGT, g meter, and the rest of the
stuff you would expect. It has marker beacons but they don't seem to work.
It has about 3100 hours TTAF and 1000 hrs since engine overhaul (service
limits).
The aircraft shows a bit of damage history a long time ago when it was
landed on the nose gear and some of the gear parts where replaced and a
motor mount piece straightened. Cylinder 1 has been oscillating in the 70
to 74 range ever since the overhaul. The other 3 Cylinders seem to run
around 76 to 78. Looks like a couple of reocurring AD's are coming due
soon, AD 96 12 07 (something about impulse couplings) and AD 98 02 08
(crankshaft corrosion check?). At 10,000 feet with I think only a little
wind the DME was indication about 118 knots flying towards the station and
about 114 in the opposite direction.
The owner had supposedly checked with a local salesman and was given the
impression it would sell for 70K. I think the salesman was perhaps a bit
misleading.

Anyone familiar with what is involved with these AD's? Does the performance
sound reasonable for a 74 Archer? Would a stable but lower reading on
cylinder 1 normally be a warning flag?
Does 52K sound like a reasonable price?

--
Mike

[Bob Noel]

In article >, "Mike Noel"
> wrote:

> I'm trying to decide what is a fair price for this aircraft. I looked at
> the asking price of 74 Archers in Trade-a-Plane and saw prices ranging
> from
> the high 40's to the high 50's. I used the TAP estimator and came up
> with
> about 52K.

The TAP estimator always seems high to me. It would estimate
my 140 at about $55,000.


>This plane is in good condition in and out, has older
> avionics,
> an autopilot, com/nav1is an old bendix unit that seems to barely work,
> com/nav2 is a newer King unit that seems to work well, it has an ADF,
> mode
> C xponder, 4 place intercom, a King DME, EGT, g meter, and the rest of
> the
> stuff you would expect. It has marker beacons but they don't seem to
> work.
>

sounds like the avionics are crap.



> It has about 3100 hours TTAF and 1000 hrs since engine overhaul (service
> limits).

service limit overhaul? blech.


> The aircraft shows a bit of damage history a long time ago when it was
> landed on the nose gear and some of the gear parts where replaced and a
> motor mount piece straightened.

old damage history is not too much of an issue. However, I'd still
get my A&P to look it over real good.


> Cylinder 1 has been oscillating in the
> 70
> to 74 range ever since the overhaul. The other 3 Cylinders seem to run
> around 76 to 78. Looks like a couple of reocurring AD's are coming due
> soon, AD 96 12 07 (something about impulse couplings) and AD 98 02 08
> (crankshaft corrosion check?).

It sure looks to me that AD 98-02-08 is overdue.



> At 10,000 feet with I think only a little
> wind the DME was indication about 118 knots flying towards the station
> and
> about 114 in the opposite direction.

sloooooow.


> The owner had supposedly checked with a local salesman and was given the
> impression it would sell for 70K.

if it had working avionics

if it had all ADs complied with

if the engine overhaul wasn't to service limits (cheap bugger).
What else did the owner cheap out on?


> I think the salesman was perhaps a bit
> misleading.

yep.


> Does the
> performance
> sound reasonable for a 74 Archer?

no.

>Would a stable but lower reading on
> cylinder 1 normally be a warning flag?

not to me.

> Does 52K sound like a reasonable price?

too high because I'm suspicious of all the stuff that barely works,
slow performance, service limit overhaul, lack of ad compliance.

make sure you get a GOOD prepurchase from an A&P you trust.

Good luck

--
Bob Noel

[Justin Case]

Call your insurance carrier, they will have the wholesale price from
the book. Compare that with the TAP estimator and go from there. And
yes, the estimator always seems to be high, as does the pricing guide
AOPA has. Buy with your head, not your heart. That way you'll not
overpay.

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 11:03:34 GMT, Bob Noel
> wrote:

>In article >, "Mike Noel"
> wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to decide what is a fair price for this aircraft. I looked at
>> the asking price of 74 Archers in Trade-a-Plane and saw prices ranging
>> from
>> the high 40's to the high 50's. I used the TAP estimator and came up
>> with
>> about 52K.
>
>The TAP estimator always seems high to me. It would estimate
>my 140 at about $55,000.
>
>
>>This plane is in good condition in and out, has older
>> avionics,
>> an autopilot, com/nav1is an old bendix unit that seems to barely work,
>> com/nav2 is a newer King unit that seems to work well, it has an ADF,
>> mode
>> C xponder, 4 place intercom, a King DME, EGT, g meter, and the rest of
>> the
>> stuff you would expect. It has marker beacons but they don't seem to
>> work.
>>
>
>sounds like the avionics are crap.
>
>
>
>> It has about 3100 hours TTAF and 1000 hrs since engine overhaul (service
>> limits).
>
>service limit overhaul? blech.
>
>
>> The aircraft shows a bit of damage history a long time ago when it was
>> landed on the nose gear and some of the gear parts where replaced and a
>> motor mount piece straightened.
>
>old damage history is not too much of an issue. However, I'd still
>get my A&P to look it over real good.
>
>
>> Cylinder 1 has been oscillating in the
>> 70
>> to 74 range ever since the overhaul. The other 3 Cylinders seem to run
>> around 76 to 78. Looks like a couple of reocurring AD's are coming due
>> soon, AD 96 12 07 (something about impulse couplings) and AD 98 02 08
>> (crankshaft corrosion check?).
>
>It sure looks to me that AD 98-02-08 is overdue.
>
>
>
>> At 10,000 feet with I think only a little
>> wind the DME was indication about 118 knots flying towards the station
>> and
>> about 114 in the opposite direction.
>
>sloooooow.
>
>
>> The owner had supposedly checked with a local salesman and was given the
>> impression it would sell for 70K.
>
>if it had working avionics
>
>if it had all ADs complied with
>
>if the engine overhaul wasn't to service limits (cheap bugger).
>What else did the owner cheap out on?
>
>
>> I think the salesman was perhaps a bit
>> misleading.
>
>yep.
>
>
>> Does the
>> performance
>> sound reasonable for a 74 Archer?
>
>no.
>
>>Would a stable but lower reading on
>> cylinder 1 normally be a warning flag?
>
>not to me.
>
>> Does 52K sound like a reasonable price?
>
>too high because I'm suspicious of all the stuff that barely works,
>slow performance, service limit overhaul, lack of ad compliance.
>
>make sure you get a GOOD prepurchase from an A&P you trust.
>
>Good luck

[Nathan Young]

(Nathan Young) wrote in message >...
> "Mike Noel" > wrote in message >...
> > (crankshaft corrosion check?). At 10,000 feet with I think only a little
> > wind the DME was indication about 118 knots flying towards the station and
> > about 114 in the opposite direction.

This is slow for an Archer, but 10,000 feet means nothing without
knowing density altitude and RPM. A typical Archer should do about
150mph (130kts) wide open throttle at 8000ft DA.

> A few other things to check:
> -Check that all the avionics work.
> -Does the audio panel work, can you ident from each radio.
> -Track a VOR
> -Capture a localizer/glideslope and fly the approach in VFR conditions

Also check that the to/from flags and glideslope indicator flags work
correctly.

-Nathan

[Justin Case]

I knew someone would point that out! ;-)

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 08:56:18 -0400, "Mike Granby" >
wrote:

>"Justin Case" > wrote:
>
>> Buy with your head, not your heart.
>
>If we followed that advice, we'd never own airplanes in the first place! :)

[Justin Case]

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:06:33 -0700, "Mike Noel" >
wrote:

>I'm trying to figure out why the plane seems to cruise slowly. The prop is
>a Sensenich 76EM8 $5(S?)-0-60 HUV series 12679K (according to owner over the
>phone). Could this be a climb prop instead of a normal cruise prop?

Could be the wings!!!

[Aaron Coolidge]

Justin Case > wrote:
: On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:06:33 -0700, "Mike Noel" >
: wrote:

:>I'm trying to figure out why the plane seems to cruise slowly. The prop is
:>a Sensenich 76EM8 $5(S?)-0-60 HUV series 12679K (according to owner over the
:>phone). Could this be a climb prop instead of a normal cruise prop?

: Could be the wings!!!

The prop is the standard prop for an Archer/Cherokee 180. 76EMM8S-0-60.
Speed:
Could be the airspeed indicator, pitot, or static systems, too, but I don't
think so. 120 Knots seems about right, and checking with the DME is
probably not accurate to more than a couple knots. I guess you got something
like 116 or 117 knots from your 2-way average, which is pretty close.

I flight plan for 120 knots in my Cherokee 180, and I expect to get it at
any reasonable altitude - say less than 8000 feet D.A. I have no speed
mods of any sort, except for wheel pants. The book indicates I should get 143
MPH True Airspeed at 75%, 7500 feet D.A., which is 119 knots.

A friend of mine flies a '75 Archer, and her plane goes almost exactly
the same speed as mine. Supposedly the newer Archers ('82+?) have better
wheel fairings and are a couple knots faster.

Summary: I think you're doing OK as far as speed goes.
The Archer is a very simple to maintain plane, the AD's are not too bad, and
for $7000 you can have a GNS-430 installed at any reputable shop.
Do make sure to get a pre-buy inspection to check for the one-time AD's that
came out years ago, and do check the Lycoming 400-hour valve wobble
inspection.

PS, I think my 1968 Cherokee 180, with 9.5 paint/8.5 interior, 800 SMOH
(new limits), modern King IFR, DME, Piper Autopilot, and an IFR GPS is
worth between $55K and $60K.
The market is down, there are lots of planes available, so don't worry if
this one is not available at your price point!
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

[Jim]

I had a short round trip that averaged 121 the other night. For pre-flight
planning I use 115 to be on the safe side, it seems to work out about right.

Jim

"Sydney Hoeltzli" > wrote in message
...
> Nathan Young wrote:
>
> > This is slow for an Archer, but 10,000 feet means nothing without
> > knowing density altitude and RPM. A typical Archer should do about
> > 150mph (130kts) wide open throttle at 8000ft DA.
>
> Gosh, I guess I must just never have flown a "typical" Archer,
> even though I've flown some which had plenty of speed mods.
>
> The "book" claims ~125 kts at 75% power. 8000 ft, full
> throttle is about 75% power for us, so I assume about the
> same for normally-aspirated Archer. I think the "book"
> is a little optimistic. Not too bad.
>
> We used to see an honest 120 kts. If you're light (1-2
> people, low fuel) you'll go a bit faster.
>
> Maybe other Archer/PA28-180 owners will comment.
>
> Cheers,
> Sydney
>

[Sydney Hoeltzli]

Jim wrote:
> I had a short round trip that averaged 121 the other night. For pre-flight
> planning I use 115 to be on the safe side, it seems to work out about right.

Hi Jim,

Yep, just for grins I guestimated airspeed from some logged flights
where I know the RT distance. ~120 kts seems entirely consistant --
few knots faster if it was just two of us and fuel to the tabs,
few knots slower if it was max gross. One of the planes we flew
had some speed mods (wingtips, wheel pants, gap seals) and it did
seem to make a difference of a knot or two.

BTW Chuck Slusarczyk (the CGS Hawk guy) opined that different planes
of the same make and model commonly have a few knots difference in
TAS even if they're w/in tolerance on the wing installation and properly
rigged, just from the sum of subtle differences here and there.

Cheers,
Sydney

[Nathan Young]

Aaron Coolidge > wrote in message >...
> Justin Case > wrote:
> : On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:06:33 -0700, "Mike Noel" >
> : wrote:
>
> :>I'm trying to figure out why the plane seems to cruise slowly. The prop is
> :>a Sensenich 76EM8 $5(S?)-0-60 HUV series 12679K (according to owner over the
> :>phone). Could this be a climb prop instead of a normal cruise prop?
>
> : Could be the wings!!!
>
> The prop is the standard prop for an Archer/Cherokee 180. 76EMM8S-0-60.

Yep. Senenich's website indicates that Cherokee 180/early Archers use
the 60 inch pitch. Archer IIs (starting in '78) use a 62 inch, so
that's why the late model Archers are faster.

-Nathan

[Lasse Hero]

Nathan Young wrote:

> This is slow for an Archer, but 10,000 feet means nothing without
> knowing density altitude and RPM. A typical Archer should do about
> 150mph (130kts) wide open throttle at 8000ft DA.

Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load? (it seems that
all Americans fly Archers at about 10k ft...:)

I'm interetested in what kind of airspeed/fpm you use and how do you
lean in climb?

I don't usually go higher than 7000-8000 ft (with full load) and that is
difficult enough in my opinion :) I try to maintain at least 300fpm all
the way, with airspeed >80kts and leaning gradually after 5000ft.

Regards,

Lasse

[David Megginson]

Lasse Hero > writes:

> Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
> not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load? (it seems
> that all Americans fly Archers at about 10k ft...:)

I recently few my Warrior up to 9000 ft near maximum gross (2440 lb),
to get clear of cloudtops -- it was a hot day, so the density altitude
was well over 10,000 ft. It takes a little while to climb up there on
a hot day, but it's not a big deal, even with 160 hp. I imagine that
an Archer could handle it much more easily.

For leaning in the climb, I think that the trick would be to stay a
little rich of best power, so that you're already rich of peak CHT
(which occurs between peak EGT and best power): that way, at any given
setting the mixture will keep enriching itself as you climb, so
there's no danger of scorching your engine if you forget about the
mixture for a few minutes. You wouldn't want to be near peak EGT, or
else the engine would enrich itself *towards* peak CHT as you climbed.

Here's John Deakin's discussion of mixture and climb:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182176-1.html


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Lasse Hero > said:
>Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
>not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load? (it seems that
>all Americans fly Archers at about 10k ft...:)

Coming back from Oshkosh, me and my friend Greg and our baggage got a
nearly at-gross Archer to 12,500 trying to see if we could see over some
clouds. And this plane has a cruise prop.


--
Paul Tomblin >, not speaking for anybody
QUOTE OF THE DAY:

`

[Lasse Hero]

David Megginson wrote:
>
> I recently few my Warrior up to 9000 ft near maximum gross (2440 lb),
> to get clear of cloudtops -- it was a hot day, so the density altitude
> was well over 10,000 ft. It takes a little while to climb up there on
> a hot day, but it's not a big deal, even with 160 hp. I imagine that
> an Archer could handle it much more easily.

Thanks for the tips. The reason I'm asking is that I've never heard/seen
anyone flying >10000 ft in an Archer or equivalent here in Finland. Of
course we don't have any terrain requiring that kind of altitude, but
the weather and controlled airspace (some airways start at 9500ft)
sometimes require higher altitudes.

It's nice to know that it's possible, like the aircraft manual says too.

Regards,

Lasse

[David Megginson]

Lasse Hero > writes:

> It's nice to know that it's possible, like the aircraft manual says
> too.

It's possible, but you need to control the airspeed carefully and be
very patient -- I often saw negative readings on the VSI when I hit
downdrafts, but when I just held my climb speed, eventually the ALT
would start winding up again. The POH numbers assume Vy all the way
up, but I'd be worried about cooling -- next time, I think that if I
cannot climb at 85-90 kias, I'll go up in steps, climbing Vy for a
while and then levelling off at a higher speed to cool the engine a
little.

In the winter in Finland (as in Canada), it should be much easier,
since the density altitude at 10,000 ft will be at least a couple of
thousand feet lower.

By the way, I spent a few days in Vaasa in the late 1990's. It's a
beautiful area, and the pine and birch remind me a lot of northern
Ontario (that's probably why so many people from Finland settled in
that part of Canada).


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

[Jay Honeck]

> Coming back from Oshkosh, me and my friend Greg and our baggage got a
> nearly at-gross Archer to 12,500 trying to see if we could see over some
> clouds. And this plane has a cruise prop.

Shoot, Bob Fry got his 85 hp Ercoupe up over 12,000 feet crossing the Rocky
Mountains on his way to OSH.

Anything is possible, I guess.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John Ross]

Lasse Hero > wrote in news:mVMYa.452$jY3.157
@reader1.news.jippii.net:

> David Megginson wrote:
>>
>> I recently few my Warrior up to 9000 ft near maximum gross (2440 lb),
>> to get clear of cloudtops -- it was a hot day, so the density altitude
>> was well over 10,000 ft. It takes a little while to climb up there on
>> a hot day, but it's not a big deal, even with 160 hp. I imagine that
>> an Archer could handle it much more easily.
>
> Thanks for the tips. The reason I'm asking is that I've never heard/seen
> anyone flying >10000 ft in an Archer or equivalent here in Finland. Of
> course we don't have any terrain requiring that kind of altitude, but
> the weather and controlled airspace (some airways start at 9500ft)
> sometimes require higher altitudes.
>
> It's nice to know that it's possible, like the aircraft manual says too.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lasse
>

I flew an Archer II on my first cross-country vacation in June, and often
cruised at 11,500 or 12,500 (although it was just me, my luggage, and full
tanks). It took me 23 minutes to climb from Bakersfield (KBFL, 507 feet
elev) to 12,500 on a warm day.

Flying at the higher altitudes on my vacation kept me above mountains and
turbulence. Plus, I liked knowing that my options were better in the event
that I lost the engine. More experienced pilots might have flown lower.

-John Ross

[G.R. Patterson III]

Lasse Hero wrote:
>
> Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
> not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load?

Service ceiling on the Archer is 14,300'. That means that at 14,300'
density altitude, the Archer will climb at less than 100 fpm at max gross.
Practically speaking, the performance is a bit better than that, since you
won't be at max gross by the time you climb up there.

This is about the same as my Maule, though my rate of climb is a bit better
at low altitudes. It takes me less than 1/2 hour to reach 10,000' on a hot
day. Still, the only time that pays off is when the winds are strong and
favorable up there and I'm going a few hundred miles, or if there's protected
airspace (like Dulles) that I need to go over instead of around.

George Patterson
They say that nothing's certain except death and taxes. The thing is,
death doesn't get worse every time Congress goes into session.
Will Rogers

[Mike Hammock]

I frequently take out 78 Archer II to 10-11,000 ft. Not for
short trips, of course, but for 300+ miles and if the
winds are reasonable, it works well. Gets me that much
above the low level clouds and turblance.
I'm only climbing about 250-300 fpm torward the end,
but no controller has complained.

Mike Pvt/IFR N44979 at RYY


Lasse Hero wrote:

> Nathan Young wrote:
>
> > This is slow for an Archer, but 10,000 feet means nothing without
> > knowing density altitude and RPM. A typical Archer should do about
> > 150mph (130kts) wide open throttle at 8000ft DA.
>
> Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
> not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load? (it seems that
> all Americans fly Archers at about 10k ft...:)
>
> I'm interetested in what kind of airspeed/fpm you use and how do you
> lean in climb?
>
> I don't usually go higher than 7000-8000 ft (with full load) and that is
> difficult enough in my opinion :) I try to maintain at least 300fpm all
> the way, with airspeed >80kts and leaning gradually after 5000ft.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lasse

[Snowbird]

Lasse Hero > wrote in message >...

> Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
> not-so-powerful engine?

Well, you raise the nose a little bit, push in the throttle...

Seriously, we have the same engine as the Archer. Our plane
has a service ceiling of 14,000 ft, and it will get there.

It takes a while, and careful attention to DA-adjusted Vy
and leaning. I haven't had a problem w/ engine overheating
at those altitudes, btw, usually the air is cool enough
and also I run a little richer than in cruise.

It is helpful to know a little bit about lift and where to
find it, and also not to be concerned if you encounter sink
and stop climbing for a bit. I would love to get a glider rating
so I'd learn more but just paying attention to wind direction
and terrain I was able to find lift flying all around Yellowstone
Park.

> Do you do it even with full load?

Yes, it just takes a little longer.

> I'm interetested in what kind of airspeed/fpm you use and how do you
> lean in climb?

I use POH Vy adjusted for altitude (usually pretty close to Vx
above 10,000 -- also maximize VSI). I lean for best power above
5,000 ft, then just a hair richer.

You won't always get >300 fpm near max gross and high DA.

HTH,
Sydney

[Snowbird]

"Mike Noel" > wrote in message >...
> Just to tie up some of the original question, the 74 Archer ended up costing
> 50K (3000 TTAF, 1000 SMOH, basic IFR, 7/7). I'll probably be asking a lot
> of advice as I learn my way around living with an airplane. Full standard
> limits insurance coverage from USAIG was $980.

Congratulations

Um, now you'll have to educate me. I have insurance with USAIG,
but I have no idea what "full standard limits insurance coverage"
might be. Coverage limit per incident? Per passenger? Deductable?
etc?

Cheers,
Sydney

[Mike Noel]

If I remember correctly (I haven't received the paper-work from the broker
yet), it was 1M liability, 100K per passenger, and hull coverage with no
deductible. I guess 'standard' was not a good word to use.

--
Mike in Tucson (AVQ)
Archer N54405

"Snowbird" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mike Noel" > wrote in message
>...
> > Just to tie up some of the original question, the 74 Archer ended up
costing
> > 50K (3000 TTAF, 1000 SMOH, basic IFR, 7/7). I'll probably be asking a
lot
> > of advice as I learn my way around living with an airplane. Full
standard
> > limits insurance coverage from USAIG was $980.
>
> Congratulations
>
> Um, now you'll have to educate me. I have insurance with USAIG,
> but I have no idea what "full standard limits insurance coverage"
> might be. Coverage limit per incident? Per passenger? Deductable?
> etc?
>
> Cheers,
> Sydney

[PaulaJay1]

In article >,
(Nathan Young) writes:

>Yep. Senenich's website indicates that Cherokee 180/early Archers use
>the 60 inch pitch. Archer IIs (starting in '78) use a 62 inch, so
>that's why the late model Archers are faster.
>

Interesting! I have a McCauley 7660 on my 79 Archer. Came that way from
previous owner. Wonder if a repitch might be in order?

Chuck

[Mike Noel]

'guess if you have climb performace to spare, repitching would be an option.

--
Mike in Tucson (AVQ)
Archer N54405

"PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (Nathan Young) writes:
>
> >Yep. Senenich's website indicates that Cherokee 180/early Archers use
> >the 60 inch pitch. Archer IIs (starting in '78) use a 62 inch, so
> >that's why the late model Archers are faster.
> >
>
> Interesting! I have a McCauley 7660 on my 79 Archer. Came that way from
> previous owner. Wonder if a repitch might be in order?
>
> Chuck

[Barry Lustig]

On a trip back to the Bay Area from Las Vegas this past June, I got my
'77 Archer up to 17,000 going over the sierras just south of Mt.
Whitney. The climb over the desert was tough and slow. The
temperature out of Las Vegas was around 110F. Anyone know what %
power I was running up there?


Mike Hammock > wrote in message >...
> I frequently take out 78 Archer II to 10-11,000 ft. Not for
> short trips, of course, but for 300+ miles and if the
> winds are reasonable, it works well. Gets me that much
> above the low level clouds and turblance.
> I'm only climbing about 250-300 fpm torward the end,
> but no controller has complained.
>
> Mike Pvt/IFR N44979 at RYY
>
>
> Lasse Hero wrote:
>
> > Nathan Young wrote:
> >
> > > This is slow for an Archer, but 10,000 feet means nothing without
> > > knowing density altitude and RPM. A typical Archer should do about
> > > 150mph (130kts) wide open throttle at 8000ft DA.
> >
> > Btw, how do you guys get that high with a non-aspirated and
> > not-so-powerful engine? Do you do it even with full load? (it seems that
> > all Americans fly Archers at about 10k ft...:)
> >
> > I'm interetested in what kind of airspeed/fpm you use and how do you
> > lean in climb?
> >
> > I don't usually go higher than 7000-8000 ft (with full load) and that is
> > difficult enough in my opinion :) I try to maintain at least 300fpm all
> > the way, with airspeed >80kts and leaning gradually after 5000ft.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Lasse

[Lasse Hero]

Everyone, thanks for the climb performance comments even though it was
off-topic! (and sorry for that)

Very useful information indeed.

Best regards,

Lasse