Getting the bug for a new plane

[Gerry Preston]

....and wondering if anyone here has bought a factory-new plane
recently. . .

I bought a new C-172S in December 2001 out of Cessna factory
inventory, through a local Florida dealer. The dealer
wouldn't budge off MSRP, but Cessna incentives amounted to
about $7500.

I've enjoyed the plane but want more speed and useful load, so
am considering a factory-new C-182T or possibly a low-time
2001 or 2002 model. I'm also intrigued with the Cirrus SR-20
and might consider that as a possibility. My wife likes the
idea of new, I think mainly because she believes it would be
more reliable.

Anyone here bought a new Cessna product recently? I know a
while back there was a big discussion of whether or not an
individual could bargain with a dealer like you do when buying
a new car. What's the current thinking about all this?
Obviously, I'd like the best deal I can get and those Cessna
MSRP's are *really* way up there.

Thanks,
Gerry
C-172S
N5126J
SRQ

[Tom S.]

"Gerry Preston" > wrote in message
...
> ...and wondering if anyone here has bought a factory-new plane
> recently. . .
>
> I bought a new C-172S in December 2001 out of Cessna factory
> inventory, through a local Florida dealer. The dealer
> wouldn't budge off MSRP, but Cessna incentives amounted to
> about $7500.

The market for aircraft has sorta "tanked" in the past couple years, just
like for cars.

Last November, our company bought a 2001 CJ1 from a former dot.com owner and
got about half a million bucks (?) off, it being a "distressed" sale.

[Montblack]

Thank you for buying new planes. That puts more used planes into the market
<g>.

Offer a low price and walk away. If they call you back inside of 2 weeks (to
talk), you know there's a better price to be discovered. If they let you
walk, then they ain't budging. Showing much enthusiasm for the plane is ok -
it's all about the money. You've got it, they want it. Unfortunately it's
also about the plane - they've got it, you want it.

Good luck with the dance
--
Montblack


("Gerry Preston" wrote)
<snip>
> Anyone here bought a new Cessna product recently? I know a
> while back there was a big discussion of whether or not an
> individual could bargain with a dealer like you do when buying
> a new car. What's the current thinking about all this?
> Obviously, I'd like the best deal I can get and those Cessna
> MSRP's are *really* way up there.

[ArtP]

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:59:10 -0400, Gerry Preston
> wrote:

> I'm also intrigued with the Cirrus SR-20
>and might consider that as a possibility. My wife likes the
>idea of new, I think mainly because she believes it would be
>more reliable.

It's not. Mine went to the service center (2 hour round trip by air)
22 times before the first annual. Before you consider a Cirrus you
should join COPA (www.cirruspilots.org) and read about the problems
the planes are having.

[mtmueller]

Sheesh! Stay in hotels? Couldn't fit it into the minivan? Did you bring the
kitchen sink, too? ;-)

As a long-time backpacker, I am always amazed at how much junk people haul
into OSH for their "camping" experience. I would suggest if you follow the
"Ultralight Backcountry" approach, you could probably be very comfortable at
OSH with what you could haul in a 172, but that would mean leaving behind
your generator, sat TV, hot plate...

We camped out at OSH with everything fitting into my Tiger. In fact, we
brought way too much stuff. Then again, I didn't bring a hibachi and
charcoal and all the other ridiculous things some people hauled in. After
all, Piggly Wiggly is right across the street (I bought my disposeable $2.50
foam cooler, beer, and ice instead of hauling it like I saw some people
try)!!!

But your point is well taken. You MUST analyze your most realistic load, and
that means being honest on the scale as well as with what you drag around.
(Boy did I see some Pvt Pyles lumbering around with dunlop disease, and
watch them SQUEEEZE into an RV with all their junk... looked like a real
scary frat prank)

After you hump a ruck over a mountain range or two, you get very realistic
with what you REALLY need to haul around in anything, whether on your back
or in your plane.


"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> Gerry Preston wrote:
> > I've enjoyed the plane but want more speed and useful load, so
> > am considering a factory-new C-182T or possibly a low-time
> > 2001 or 2002 model. I'm also intrigued with the Cirrus SR-20
> > and might consider that as a possibility. My wife likes the
> > idea of new, I think mainly because she believes it would be
> > more reliable.
>
> I guess I am thinking about your experience at this point.
> How many hours total time?
> How much high performance?
> It's a small step from a C172 to a C182, but a big leap from a C172 to a
> Cirrus SR20.
> Check insurance rates for yourself for each aircraft.
> Speed is nice, but load hauling is better (especially if you plan to
> attend OSH).
> I just got back from OSH, flying a 182. I had a difficult time fitting
> everything I brought back into my minivan. That is the second time in
> seven months I have loaded the airplane and had more room than the
> automobile had. Loaded, the 182 had a stable final approach speed of 65
> kts.
> I haven't flown a Cirrus, but I doubt you could do the same with it.
> If you pack lightly, stay in hotels, then speed and the Cirrus may be
> better.
> But if you don't have the experience, take your time and work up to it.
> You will live longer.




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[Maule Driver]

"Gerry Preston" > wrote in message
...

> I've enjoyed the plane but want more speed and useful load, so
> am considering a factory-new C-182T or possibly a low-time
> 2001 or 2002 model. I'm also intrigued with the Cirrus SR-20
> and might consider that as a possibility. My wife likes the
> idea of new, I think mainly because she believes it would be
> more reliable.
>
Seems that no matter what new Cessna you buy, it's not very new. If you are
going to pay the premium, why not go for new technology?

[Newps]

Before you even consider the Cirrus check on insurance rates. A new
Cirrus may set you back something on the order of $12K per year for
insurance. The 182 won't be anywhere close to that.

Gerry Preston wrote:

> ...and wondering if anyone here has bought a factory-new plane recently.
> . .
>
> I bought a new C-172S in December 2001 out of Cessna factory inventory,
> through a local Florida dealer. The dealer wouldn't budge off MSRP, but
> Cessna incentives amounted to about $7500.
>
> I've enjoyed the plane but want more speed and useful load, so am
> considering a factory-new C-182T or possibly a low-time 2001 or 2002
> model. I'm also intrigued with the Cirrus SR-20 and might consider that
> as a possibility. My wife likes the idea of new, I think mainly because
> she believes it would be more reliable.
>
> Anyone here bought a new Cessna product recently? I know a while back
> there was a big discussion of whether or not an individual could bargain
> with a dealer like you do when buying a new car. What's the current
> thinking about all this? Obviously, I'd like the best deal I can get and
> those Cessna MSRP's are *really* way up there.
>
> Thanks,
> Gerry
> C-172S
> N5126J
> SRQ
>

[Wily Wapiti]

> I've enjoyed the plane but want more speed and useful load, so
> am considering a factory-new C-182T or possibly a low-time
> 2001 or 2002 model. I'm also intrigued with the Cirrus SR-20
> and might consider that as a possibility. My wife likes the
> idea of new, I think mainly because she believes it would be
> more reliable.

I talked to a guy last week with a 2000 Millenium Edition Turbo
206, that he has owned since new. It has been back to the factory for
a total of almost a year in the 2.5 years he has owned it. Two new
engines, now it has another cylinder going down. All this with less
that 500 Hrs. on the plane. There were also some other non-trivial
problems with the engine and flight instruments when the plane was
new.

What's going on with quality control at Cessna?

Although the thought of a new plane is attractive, there is also
something to be said about letting someone else work the bugs out
first.

WW

[Jim Fisher]

"john smith" > wrote in message
> It's a small step from a C172 to a C182, but a big leap from a C172 to a
> Cirrus SR20.

I would have to disagree. While I admit that my total time in an SR22 is
only about 10 minutes, I can assure you that it flies like a dream.

> If you pack lightly, stay in hotels, then speed and the Cirrus may be
> better.
> But if you don't have the experience, take your time and work up to it.
> You will live longer.

The statistics would appear to not support that statement. What's your beef
with Cirrus?

--
Jim Fisher

[Gerry Preston]

Well, fortunately, my exerience with my new 172 over the last
20 months of ownership has been much more positive. Only two
squawks, really. After only one month, the transponder failed
and was down for three weeks as I waited for Honeywell to get
me a new one. The other problem had to do with the nose strut
not wanting to maintain pressure. Had it in the local shop 3
times before it was fixed for good.

Gerry

Wily Wapiti wrote:
....
> I talked to a guy last week with a 2000 Millenium Edition Turbo
> 206, that he has owned since new. It has been back to the factory for
> a total of almost a year in the 2.5 years he has owned it. Two new
> engines, now it has another cylinder going down. All this with less
> that 500 Hrs. on the plane. There were also some other non-trivial
> problems with the engine and flight instruments when the plane was
> new.
>
> What's going on with quality control at Cessna?
>
> Although the thought of a new plane is attractive, there is also
> something to be said about letting someone else work the bugs out
> first.
>
> WW

[Jay Honeck]

> Well, fortunately, my exerience with my new 172 over the last
> 20 months of ownership has been much more positive. Only two
> squawks, really. After only one month, the transponder failed
> and was down for three weeks as I waited for Honeywell to get
> me a new one.

What could possibly take 3 weeks to get a transponder?

Unless there was more to it than just a bad unit, we're talking about a five
minute replacement job.

Or do the new Cessnas come with some weird, unusual transponder that no one
else stocks?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gerry Preston]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> What could possibly take 3 weeks to get a transponder?
>

Good question. When I complained to Cessna, they sent me to a
large avionics sales and service dealership 50 miles away.
This dealer had a replacement on the shelf and just swapped it
for the bad one. Never really knew why the first shop took so
long; they kept telling me they had sent the old unit to
Honeywell, and Honeywell was telling them they were
temporarily out of stock, awaiting a shipment from the
off-shore manufacturing facility.

[john smith]

Jim Fisher wrote:
> > If you pack lightly, stay in hotels, then speed and the Cirrus may be
> > better.
> > But if you don't have the experience, take your time and work up to it.
> > You will live longer.
>
> The statistics would appear to not support that statement. What's your beef
> with Cirrus?

Which statement?
The one about packing lightly?
I don't think the Cirrus has the cabin volume or center of gravity range
in the baggage area due to the pinched empenage.

Or building time and experience?
You mean Thurmond Munson syndrome? Having the money to buy the aircraft
but not the experience to fly it.
Accident statistics bear this out. That's why insurance costs less as
you build time and experience.

[Tom S.]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> You mean Thurmond Munson syndrome? Having the money to buy the aircraft
> but not the experience to fly it.

???

IIRC, Munson had two instructors in the plane with him when he crashed.

[Maule Driver]

"Tom S." > wrote in message
...
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> > You mean Thurmond Munson syndrome? Having the money to buy the aircraft
> > but not the experience to fly it.
>
> ???
>
> IIRC, Munson had two instructors in the plane with him when he crashed.
>

Thank goodness he wasn't a doctor...

It's funny how we file events like that away in our heads.

[john smith]

"Tom S." wrote:
> IIRC, Munson had two instructors in the plane with him when he crashed.

Right. And where were they sitting?
Not in the right seat.
Not in the left seat.

[john smith]

"Tom S." wrote:
> IIRC, Munson had two instructors in the plane with him when he crashed.

Right. And where were they sitting?
Not in the right seat.
Not in the left seat.

[Tom S.]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> "Tom S." wrote:
> > IIRC, Munson had two instructors in the plane with him when he crashed.
>
> Right. And where were they sitting?
> Not in the right seat.
> Not in the left seat.

The porta potty?

IIRC, one instructor was in the left seat and one in the "jump seat".
(Memory dims after 25 years).