#2 OBS, what would you do?

[Snowbird]

Our #2 OBS is a KI-201C. Our avionics guy rescued it when it turned
out to be inop after we bought the plane, by soldering in a $10
capacitor or some such, and it worked flawlessly for about 5 yrs.

Now a 10 degree change on the OBS only produces half deflection.

This time same avionics guy can't find anything to fix (so far).

Our set-up is #1 KX-170B w/ glideslope receiver, KI-206 (I think)
#2 MX-170B, KI-201C
Apollo 2001 GPS (IFR approach certified), Mid-continent CDI

We're contemplating our options. Replace #2 with a KI-214 (integral
GS receiver) so we have two LOC/GS? with a KI-209a/external GS receiver
so we have 2 LOC/GS but also something which might be capable of VNAV
at a later date?

Leave out the #2 OBS altogether and fill the hole with an electric
horizen gyro? We can identify intersections and back up the loc
with the GPS...course it's less precise...

Other alternatives we haven't considered yet...

Thoughts? What would y'all do?

Cheers,
Sydney

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
(Snowbird) wrote:

> We're contemplating our options. Replace #2 with a KI-214 (integral
> GS receiver) so we have two LOC/GS? with a KI-209a/external GS receiver
> so we have 2 LOC/GS but also something which might be capable of VNAV
> at a later date?

are there new KI-214's out there? If not, think about how old
those things are. I know they are about the same age as your
radios, but the repair costs approach the cost of replacements.

back in 1994-1995 I had a KI-214 in my 140. The second time it
failed I nuked it. In my case I replaced the KX-170B/KI-214 with
a KX-125 and filled the hole with a strikefinder.

good luck

--
Bob Noel

[[email protected]]

On 15-Aug-2003, (Snowbird) wrote:

> Leave out the #2 OBS altogether and fill the hole with an electric
> horizen gyro? We can identify intersections and back up the loc
> with the GPS...course it's less precise...


If you fly "serious" IFR, that would definitely be my vote. The electric AI
will provide backup for failure of either the vacuum system or the primary
vacuum AI. Furthermore, the GPS will identify location of an intersection
with far GREATER accuracy than a pair of VOR receivers/CDIs, or even a
VOR/CDI and a DME. Think about it: if the CDI has an error of only 1
degree, at 40 nm from the VOR station that translates to a lateral error of
about .7 nm. By comparison, the GPS is accurate laterally to a matter of a
few meters.

You are correct that this setup will not provide localizer backup in the far
less likely event of failure of the #1 Nav or its CDI, but you still have
the approach-approved GPS for that situation

-Elliott Drucker

[Snowbird]

wrote in message >...
> On 15-Aug-2003, (Snowbird) wrote:
> > Leave out the #2 OBS altogether and fill the hole with an electric
> > horizen gyro? We can identify intersections and back up the loc
> > with the GPS...course it's less precise...

> If you fly "serious" IFR, that would definitely be my vote.

Heh. Yeah, I suppose you would say we fly "serious" IFR.
Perhaps more serious than one ought to get in a light GA
single.

This has a certain attraction. But for some time, I've been
wanting to move in the other direction: adding a 2nd glideslope
receiver. For those times when the ILS is the only way down.
We don't take off into that situation, but we seem to get
there all the same.

OTOH, for some time I've been wanting to add an electric AI,
too, and I've been growing increasingly skeptical of how useful
a right-side instrument would be if we could find one.

Re some other posts: actually putting hands on a used KI-214
doesn't seem to be an issue. Even a yellow-tagged function
checked KI-214. What concerns me is the fact it would be a
product of similar age to the KI-201C we're replacing. If
it's true that this KI-201C basically can't be repaired 'cuz
it's just too old, same concern applies to KI-214.

Does anyone know if there's such a thing as a 2 1/2" CDI
which will work w/ King 17X radios?

Thanks for the input, Elliot!
Sydney

[Dennis O'Connor]

My #1 LOC/GS is currently the KI-214... Purchased outright, used, from
Eastern Avionics.. Driving it with the MX-170B, which is a slide in for the
KX-170... Working just fine for two years now...
Denny

> Snowbird > wrote:
> >We're contemplating our options. Replace #2 with a KI-214 (integral
> >GS receiver) so we have two LOC/GS?
>

[Dennis O'Connor]

Ignoring used v/s new costs for the moment... Consider the VAL INS-422...
entire VOR/LOC/GS/MB radio in one small hole in the panel... No moving
parts... Should last a long time..

My #2 VOR/LOC/GS is an MX-300A and it has the LED needles built into the
face of the radio... Not legal for approaches I suspect, but it is dead nuts
on when compared to the KI-214... A great comfort to me when I get carried
away and shoot ILS approaches in actual...

I agree on the utility of the 2nd GS... I had a GS fail during an approach -
in actual - a few years back... The &*^%($# piece of lethal crap failed
with the GS needle centered and no warning flag... Only when I noted that
my VSI showed that I was flattening out at ~300 fpm and there was not a
corresponding GS needle deviation, did I begin to question things (up to
that instant I thought I was an ATP)... The ceiling was 100 feet below legal
for a localizer approach, but knowing the airport very well, and knowing
that I was descending into a flat area, free of obstructions, I opted to
keep the localizer needle centered and and the VSI on 380 fpm as called for
on the approach plate... I broke out on center line, and on glide slope
according to the VASI... The MX-300A was ordered the very next day while I
was shopping for a complete #2 nav/com radio package and I stumbled across
it whilest talking to Eastern Avionics owner... It slid into an existing
tray on the panel saving me installation cost... A $35 used splitter for the
GS antenna and I was in business....

Denny
"Snowbird" > wrote in message
om...
> wrote in message
>...
> > On 15-Aug-2003, (Snowbird) wrote:
> > > Leave out the #2 OBS altogether and fill the hole with an electric
> > > horizen gyro?

[Snowbird]

(Ben Jackson) wrote in message news:<INc%a.152471$uu5.22850@sccrnsc04>...

> While researching the avionics in all of the planes I was considering
> buying I ran across the KI-214. It has a poor reputation. I also had
> a hard time finding used/overhauled ones for sale to try and put a
> value on it.

This is strange to me. There doesn't seem to be a shortage of
used/yellow tagged units. They go for $700-900 depending on where
you buy it, on ebay you can get them for less depending upon
condition and the phase of the Moon.

It is a consideration to us that it's a unit of comparable age
to our 201C indicator, so if it's now unrepairable there's a
chance that the 214 might die and be unrepairable. So it might
be worth more money up-front to get a newer unit.

Cheers,
Sydney

[Snowbird]

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message >...
> My #1 LOC/GS is currently the KI-214... Purchased outright, used, from
> Eastern Avionics.. Driving it with the MX-170B, which is a slide in for the
> KX-170... Working just fine for two years now...

Denny,

How did you handle the install? Did you do it yourself, or have
it done? Approx. hours or cost?

We had our 201C repaired when we bought the plane. It held up
fine for 5 yrs but is now fritzing again.

2 yrs isn't long on the GA timescale :\

Cheers,
Sydney

[Snowbird]

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message >...
> Ignoring used v/s new costs for the moment... Consider the VAL INS-422...
> entire VOR/LOC/GS/MB radio in one small hole in the panel... No moving
> parts... Should last a long time..

Actually, we're considering that. Our avionics guy never heard
of it. It's pricier up front but it's *possible* that the installation
costs would even out.

Anyone here w/ experience want to comment?

> My #2 VOR/LOC/GS is an MX-300A and it has the LED needles built into the
> face of the radio... Not legal for approaches I suspect

Why do you say that? Why shouldn't it be legal for approaches?

> I agree on the utility of the 2nd GS... I had a GS fail during an approach -
> in actual - a few years back... The &*^%($# piece of lethal crap failed
> with the GS needle centered and no warning flag...

Yeah, that's happened to a couple of people we know, leading to
our reluctance to just substitute an electric horizon gyro.

Cheers,
Sydney