Citabria Rolls to the Left

[John Shoemaker]

With my feet flat on the floor, ... not touching the rudder pedals, my
Citabria rolls to the left.

I have to hold right stick a bit for an entire trip.

I was told the the wing had to be "bent".
There are adjustments at the base of each strut on both sides of the
fuselage. I'd like to take in a turn or two and see what happens, but I
don't know which side to adjust.

-shoe

[Tom S.]

"John Shoemaker" > wrote in message
...
> With my feet flat on the floor, ... not touching the rudder pedals, my
> Citabria rolls to the left.
>
Torque?

> I have to hold right stick a bit for an entire trip.
>
> I was told the the wing had to be "bent".
> There are adjustments at the base of each strut on both sides of the
> fuselage. I'd like to take in a turn or two and see what happens, but I
> don't know which side to adjust.

Trim?

[JerryK]

Sounds like you need to have the plane re-rigged. Talk to your A&P.

"John Shoemaker" > wrote in message
...
> With my feet flat on the floor, ... not touching the rudder pedals, my
> Citabria rolls to the left.
>
> I have to hold right stick a bit for an entire trip.
>
> I was told the the wing had to be "bent".
> There are adjustments at the base of each strut on both sides of the
> fuselage. I'd like to take in a turn or two and see what happens, but I
> don't know which side to adjust.
>
> -shoe

[G.R. Patterson III]

John Shoemaker wrote:
>
> There are adjustments at the base of each strut on both sides of the
> fuselage. I'd like to take in a turn or two and see what happens, but I
> don't know which side to adjust.

I had a similar problem with my Maule. Shortening the left rear strut one turn
pretty much took care of it. Shortening it two turns warped the wing too much,
which showed as a wrinkle in the lower skin across several bays. If one turn
doesn't do the trick on your plane, I would lengthen the right rear strut one
turn.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

[Doug]

If you bring the left wing closer to the fuselage, it will warp the
wing down(adding washout, is the correct term). This will cause roll
to the right. However, due to the fact it is better for stall
behavior, it would probably be better to move the right wing further
from the fuselage (more threads showing). You will need an assistant
to hold the wing while you work on it. Do it with little fuel. Before
you do this, adjust the rudder trim so when you are tracking straight
ahead, the wings are level right to left. Your ball should also be
centered. There may be some compromise here.

So it is adjust the rudder for wing low, and adjust the wing warp for
pulling to the left or right. Get it?

You should adjust the plane for a typical load, at typical airspeed.
It is imposssible to rig a plane perfectly without onboard rudder and
aileron trim for all loads and airspeeds, as the angle of attack
changes with load and airspeed, thus affect the needed rudder, and
rudder causes roll to the left or right, meaning you need aileron trim
(wing warping)...ad infinitum.

John Shoemaker > wrote in message >...
> With my feet flat on the floor, ... not touching the rudder pedals, my
> Citabria rolls to the left.
>
> I have to hold right stick a bit for an entire trip.
>
> I was told the the wing had to be "bent".
> There are adjustments at the base of each strut on both sides of the
> fuselage. I'd like to take in a turn or two and see what happens, but I
> don't know which side to adjust.
>
> -shoe

[Craig]

John Shoemaker > wrote in message >...
> With my feet flat on the floor, ... not touching the rudder pedals, my
> Citabria rolls to the left.
>
> I have to hold right stick a bit for an entire trip.
>
> I was told the the wing had to be "bent".
> There are adjustments at the base of each strut on both sides of the
> fuselage. I'd like to take in a turn or two and see what happens, but I
> don't know which side to adjust.
>

Best and first thing to do is get out the manual and correctly level
the a/c, and verify correct rigging. There will be a procedure for
leveling the a/c and then for checking for correct rigging. Once you
know that the a/c is correctly rigged, you can then start making
adjustments to correct the problem. It could be a rigging problem, a
trim tab problem, a control throw problem.... By blindly making
adjustments it will be a hit or miss proposition on finding what is
messed up. Start from having the rig correct and make one adjustment
at a time to work out what it really needs. It will involve lots of
trips around the patch, but won't be a frustation builder.

Craig C.

[John]

Thanks, Shawn.
That was very helpful.

I'll let all you folks know when I find out what works.
I'll be talking to my favorite mechanic in the next couple of weeks.

-john

"ShawnD2112" > wrote:

>Before taking your airplane's wings apart, answer a couple of questions.
>You want to solve the roll problem but not add any extra drag to the
>airframe, which altering a wing's incidence angle may do.
>
>Are you sure you're straight and level when you're checking for the roll? A
>slight, nearly imperceptable climb without correcting rudder will induce
>left roll as a secondary effect of the yaw.
>
> Does your airplane have rudder trim? (Most do, I think). If so, it will
>only trim for staight and level at one airspeed. Try flying straight and
>level at several airspeeds with your feet flat on the floor and see what it
>does to the roll. Start off in 5 knt increments and you'll be able to see
>the roll become more or less pronounced. If you narrow it down to a cruise
>speed that gives no roll, that's the speed your rudder trim is set for. If
>you can live with that as your cruise speed, no worries. If you can't,
>alter the trim tab to give more or less rudder and try a few more test
>flights until you get it right.
>
>If you can't find a no-roll airspeed, or you end up with a huge amount of
>rudder trim, then you've probably got a rigging problem as the others here
>have suggested. On my Pitts, I had the same problem, but the roll was to
>the right. I went through the test procedure just like above and concluded
>my wings weren't rigged properly. Because it's experimental, I was able to
>re-rig the wings myself with some help from the UK's Pitts expert and she
>flies like a dream now. In fact, rerigging the wings took so much drag out
>of the airframe that I got an extra 5 knts in the cruise! When I bought her
>she only had 34 hours on the airframe and had never been really aerobatted.
>In the ensuing 50 hours I put on her, she started to settle and things
>stretched and basically settled in, so things needed to be tightened and
>readjusted here and there.
>
>If you can rerig the wings yourself, the preference is to take incidence
>angle OUT of a wing, rather than put it in. So, if it's rolling left, you
>want to raise the trailing edge of the right wing, if you can. Lower angle
>of incidence means less induced drag and the wings aren't fighting against
>each other, wasting lift.
>
>It's a bit simplistic, but that's the essence of how we solved my rolling
>problem. Best of luck with yours!
>
>Shawn
>Pitts S-1D G-BKVP
>"John Shoemaker" > wrote in message
...
>> With my feet flat on the floor, ... not touching the rudder pedals, my
>> Citabria rolls to the left.
>>
>> I have to hold right stick a bit for an entire trip.
>>
>> I was told the the wing had to be "bent".
>> There are adjustments at the base of each strut on both sides of the
>> fuselage. I'd like to take in a turn or two and see what happens, but I
>> don't know which side to adjust.
>>
>> -shoe
>

[ShawnD2112]

You bet, John. I hope it helps. Rereading my last posting, I'm reminded to
mention that when test flying to find a no-roll airspeed, you're basically
looking to make sure the ball is centered. That's the easiest way to tell
if the rudder trim/airspeed combination is right.

Let us know how you get on.

Shawn
"John" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks, Shawn.
> That was very helpful.
>
> I'll let all you folks know when I find out what works.
> I'll be talking to my favorite mechanic in the next couple of weeks.
>
> -john
>
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote:
>
> >Before taking your airplane's wings apart, answer a couple of questions.
> >You want to solve the roll problem but not add any extra drag to the
> >airframe, which altering a wing's incidence angle may do.
> >
> >Are you sure you're straight and level when you're checking for the roll?
A
> >slight, nearly imperceptable climb without correcting rudder will induce
> >left roll as a secondary effect of the yaw.
> >
> > Does your airplane have rudder trim? (Most do, I think). If so, it
will
> >only trim for staight and level at one airspeed. Try flying straight and
> >level at several airspeeds with your feet flat on the floor and see what
it
> >does to the roll. Start off in 5 knt increments and you'll be able to
see
> >the roll become more or less pronounced. If you narrow it down to a
cruise
> >speed that gives no roll, that's the speed your rudder trim is set for.
If
> >you can live with that as your cruise speed, no worries. If you can't,
> >alter the trim tab to give more or less rudder and try a few more test
> >flights until you get it right.
> >
> >If you can't find a no-roll airspeed, or you end up with a huge amount of
> >rudder trim, then you've probably got a rigging problem as the others
here
> >have suggested. On my Pitts, I had the same problem, but the roll was to
> >the right. I went through the test procedure just like above and
concluded
> >my wings weren't rigged properly. Because it's experimental, I was able
to
> >re-rig the wings myself with some help from the UK's Pitts expert and she
> >flies like a dream now. In fact, rerigging the wings took so much drag
out
> >of the airframe that I got an extra 5 knts in the cruise! When I bought
her
> >she only had 34 hours on the airframe and had never been really
aerobatted.
> >In the ensuing 50 hours I put on her, she started to settle and things
> >stretched and basically settled in, so things needed to be tightened and
> >readjusted here and there.
> >
> >If you can rerig the wings yourself, the preference is to take incidence
> >angle OUT of a wing, rather than put it in. So, if it's rolling left,
you
> >want to raise the trailing edge of the right wing, if you can. Lower
angle
> >of incidence means less induced drag and the wings aren't fighting
against
> >each other, wasting lift.
> >
> >It's a bit simplistic, but that's the essence of how we solved my rolling
> >problem. Best of luck with yours!
> >
> >Shawn
> >Pitts S-1D G-BKVP
> >"John Shoemaker" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> With my feet flat on the floor, ... not touching the rudder pedals, my
> >> Citabria rolls to the left.
> >>
> >> I have to hold right stick a bit for an entire trip.
> >>
> >> I was told the the wing had to be "bent".
> >> There are adjustments at the base of each strut on both sides of the
> >> fuselage. I'd like to take in a turn or two and see what happens, but I
> >> don't know which side to adjust.
> >>
> >> -shoe
> >
>