2 seaters

[Marco Rispoli]

In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2 seater
could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.

I can afford:

Beech Skipper (goes between 25-35 grands age around 20+)
Mooney M10 (same as the skipper ... but it's older age around 30+)
Piper Tomahawk (same as the skipper).

Are there any other low wing 2 seaters out there that I am missing?
(probably, yes ...)

By the way it's not by chance that there's no high-wings in my list. I know
I can probably buy a cub for the same price ... I am just not too crazy
about high wings ... I will look into those later, if I have no other
choice.

Thanks

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net

[Jeremy Lew]

You could get a mid-1990s Diamond Katana (DA-20-A1) for a bit more than that
(40-55k).

"Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
t...
> In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2
seater
> could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.
>
> I can afford:
>
> Beech Skipper (goes between 25-35 grands age around 20+)
> Mooney M10 (same as the skipper ... but it's older age around 30+)
> Piper Tomahawk (same as the skipper).
>
> Are there any other low wing 2 seaters out there that I am missing?
> (probably, yes ...)
>
> By the way it's not by chance that there's no high-wings in my list. I
know
> I can probably buy a cub for the same price ... I am just not too crazy
> about high wings ... I will look into those later, if I have no other
> choice.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
> You can read my flight training diary at
> http://www.tranceweb.net
>
>

[Greg Burkhart]

"Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
t...
> In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2
seater
> could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.

Ercoupe?

[Ron Natalie]

"Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message t...
> In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2 seater
> could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.
>
> I can afford:
>
> Beech Skipper (goes between 25-35 grands age around 20+)
> Mooney M10 (same as the skipper ... but it's older age around 30+)
> Piper Tomahawk (same as the skipper).

The smaller PA-28's are two seaters.

> By the way it's not by chance that there's no high-wings in my list. I know
> I can probably buy a cub for the same price ... I am just not too crazy
> about high wings ... I will look into those later, if I have no other

What's wrong with high wings. There's others besides the cub, namely
the immensely popular Cessna 150/152 (and it's taildragging predecessor
the 120/140).

[Steve Robertson]

Marco, my friend, I'm not that crazy about high-wings either. But you can buy a
real nice Cessna 150 or a Piper Colt for way less than 25-35 grand. Cessna 152
for a bit more than a C-150.

The Tomahawk should not cost as much as a Skipper - It should be priced more
like a C-150. A highly underrated plane in my opinion.

The Mooney M10 is a pretty rare bird - it's actually the Ercoupe with a Mooney
tail on it. They didn't make very many.

Since you have an interest in rare birds, then consider a Varga Kachina.
Low-wing, trike-gear, tandem seating.

If you are interested in an Ercoupe-like plane, then also look at Ercoupes (and
Alon Aircoupes). Again, generally priced much lower than Skipper.

The Grumman/American AA1/Lynx/TR2 is a nice fast little 2-seater in your price
range. Lots of 'em around. Like a neat little sports car.

If you want a much roomier plane for the same money as a Skipper, look at Piper
Cherokee 140 and Beechcraft Sport (or Musketeer with 150/160hp engine). Most of
these have 4 seats in them, but they are really only good as 2-seaters if you
have baggage and full fuel. However, you will have a bigger plane with more
creature comforts, albiet with a thirstier engine. Although it's a high-wing, a
Piper Tri-Pacer fits right in here, too, but should be a bit less expensive than
a Cherokee or Sport/Musketeer. Probably one of the best values in airplane flesh
around.

Not trying to talk you out of a Skipper, they are real nice planes. But you can
get more plane for your money, or a similar plane for less money.

All these relative price comparisons would be assuming similar
equipment/condition/engine times.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft Musketeer Super III (200hp).

Marco Rispoli wrote:

> In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2 seater
> could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.
>
> I can afford:
>
> Beech Skipper (goes between 25-35 grands age around 20+)
> Mooney M10 (same as the skipper ... but it's older age around 30+)
> Piper Tomahawk (same as the skipper).
>
> Are there any other low wing 2 seaters out there that I am missing?
> (probably, yes ...)
>
> By the way it's not by chance that there's no high-wings in my list. I know
> I can probably buy a cub for the same price ... I am just not too crazy
> about high wings ... I will look into those later, if I have no other
> choice.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
> You can read my flight training diary at
> http://www.tranceweb.net

[Steve Robertson]

Jeremy, I really don't mean to pick on you, but ... Why, when a fellow says his
budget is $35k, do you pitch a solitary plane that is $5k-$20 more? Let me guess
- you own a Diamond Katana? There are plenty of other 2-seat birds in his price
range. But they will be older. And there's nother wrong with older planes.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft Musketeer A23-24

Jeremy Lew wrote:

> You could get a mid-1990s Diamond Katana (DA-20-A1) for a bit more than that
> (40-55k).
>
> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
> t...
> > In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2
> seater
> > could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.
> >
> > I can afford:
> >
> > Beech Skipper (goes between 25-35 grands age around 20+)
> > Mooney M10 (same as the skipper ... but it's older age around 30+)
> > Piper Tomahawk (same as the skipper).
> >
> > Are there any other low wing 2 seaters out there that I am missing?
> > (probably, yes ...)
> >
> > By the way it's not by chance that there's no high-wings in my list. I
> know
> > I can probably buy a cub for the same price ... I am just not too crazy
> > about high wings ... I will look into those later, if I have no other
> > choice.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
> > You can read my flight training diary at
> > http://www.tranceweb.net
> >
> >

[Marco Rispoli]

>"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>
> What's wrong with high wings. There's others besides the cub, namely
> the immensely popular Cessna 150/152 (and it's taildragging predecessor
> the 120/140).
>
>

Absolutely nothing wrong with high wings. It's just my personal preference.

For what I have seen high wings in my price range tend to be sturdier (nice
to land on soft fields, at least if you kick up some stones you won't dig a
hole in your high wing, you could potentially do that in a low wing), a tad
more stable (not for nothing most trainers are 172) but a bit slower and
with less range. At least that's what I have seen around.

Again, just a question of preference, really (and I like the looks of low
wings :) ). As someone replied in this thread, some of these low-wing 2
seaters are like little sports cars. No Lamborghini Diablo, that's for sure,
but they look slick and perform decently (for planes in the 30k range)

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net

[Marco Rispoli]

> Since you have an interest in rare birds, then consider a Varga Kachina.
> Low-wing, trike-gear, tandem seating.
>

Yes I confess: I have an interest in exotic birds. I want people to look at
my plane and go like "What the heck is that???"

I don't want them to say "Oh ... a 152. Nice, like the other three hundred
parked around here".

I also realize fully that the mechanic that will have to maintain it will
also say "What the heck is that???" and when I will see the bills I will
probably say "What the heck is that???" just as loud ... I can imagine that
"exotic" might mean hard/expensive to maintain. It's a risk ... but a worthy
risk if I can find the bird I can love for the next 30 years ... without
having to donate a kidney to buy it, that is.

The sin I am guilty of is ... vanity? :)

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net

[Jeremy Lew]

He didn't actually say what his budget is, he simply said that he could
afford the three in the list, which all happen to be the same price. I
pointed out that for a (possibly) small amount more, he could have a 8 year
old plane. You guessed wrong, I don't own a Katana, although I did most of
my primary training in them. I belong to a club with 27-year-old Warrior.
Thank you for your concern, though -- I'm sure Marco appreciates you
looking out for his best interests.

"Steve Robertson" > wrote in message
...
> Jeremy, I really don't mean to pick on you, but ... Why, when a fellow
says his
> budget is $35k, do you pitch a solitary plane that is $5k-$20 more? Let me
guess
> - you own a Diamond Katana? There are plenty of other 2-seat birds in his
price
> range. But they will be older. And there's nother wrong with older planes.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Robertson
> N4732J 1967 Beechcraft Musketeer A23-24
>
> Jeremy Lew wrote:
>
> > You could get a mid-1990s Diamond Katana (DA-20-A1) for a bit more than
that
> > (40-55k).
> >
> > "Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
> > t...
> > > In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2
> > seater
> > > could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.
> > >
> > > I can afford:
> > >
> > > Beech Skipper (goes between 25-35 grands age around 20+)
> > > Mooney M10 (same as the skipper ... but it's older age around 30+)
> > > Piper Tomahawk (same as the skipper).
> > >
> > > Are there any other low wing 2 seaters out there that I am missing?
> > > (probably, yes ...)
> > >
> > > By the way it's not by chance that there's no high-wings in my list. I
> > know
> > > I can probably buy a cub for the same price ... I am just not too
crazy
> > > about high wings ... I will look into those later, if I have no other
> > > choice.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > --
> > > Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
> > > You can read my flight training diary at
> > > http://www.tranceweb.net
> > >
> > >
>

[David Megginson]

"Marco Rispoli" > writes:

> Then again your suggestion was not that much off, since the Katana happens
> to be the plane that sends me in uncontrollable fits of drooling (it's such
> a beautifully designed aircraft). It is exactly my "dream" plane ... but
> alas I can't afford it.
>
> However, thank you both for your suggestions !!

Just a warning -- the Katana cannot be used for IFR. I don't know
what other two seaters can be, or if that's a consideration for you.

And I'm afraid no one at my airport would ask "what's that" when you
landed in a Katana -- we have several based on the field.


All the best,


David

[Marco Rispoli]

"David Megginson" > wrote in message
...
> "Marco Rispoli" > writes:
>
> > Then again your suggestion was not that much off, since the Katana
happens
> > to be the plane that sends me in uncontrollable fits of drooling (it's
such
> > a beautifully designed aircraft). It is exactly my "dream" plane ... but
> > alas I can't afford it.
> >
> > However, thank you both for your suggestions !!
>
> Just a warning -- the Katana cannot be used for IFR. I don't know
> what other two seaters can be, or if that's a consideration for you.
>
> And I'm afraid no one at my airport would ask "what's that" when you
> landed in a Katana -- we have several based on the field.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> David

Didn't know that bit about the Katana. I don't plan to fly in a thunderstorm
on purpose but I do want the ability to fly IFR if I have to.

Quite odd that they didn't build the Katana for IFR ...

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net

[Marco Rispoli]

"Mitch Hines" > wrote in message
...
> Marco,
>
> I had(have) some of the same feelings, while a 152 will get you in the
air,
> it will not get a 2nd glance. Like Greg Burkhart, I'll also add my vote
for
> the venerable Aircoupe ( or Ercoupe depending upon the year). Here's
mine -
> http://www.hinessite.com/aircoupe.htm ,for more go to
> http://www.ercoupe.org, and http://www.ercoupers.com .
>
> It will outperform the 152, and is way cooler! The bubble canopy will
give
> you great view too. A 1965 or 66 Alon Aircoupe will cost you $20K - $25,
> leaving plenty out of that $35k budget for hanger space or tiedown, $100
> hamburgers, and cool aviator sunglasses ;-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Mitch
>
>
> --
> Mitch Hines
> Alon A-2 Aircoupe
> N6369V
>
>
> Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical
> and insignificant, if not utterly impossible.
>
> - Simon Newcomb, 1902
>
>

ohhh man! gold! Nice.

I was eyeing the Aircoupe.

Is it all metal? On trade-a-plane that's what one of the sellers is
claiming... Never seen one up close and in fact before you guys mentioned it
to me I didn't even know it existed before today ...

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net

[Marco Rispoli]

"Mitch Hines" > wrote in message
...
> Marco,
>
> I had(have) some of the same feelings, while a 152 will get you in the
air,
> it will not get a 2nd glance. Like Greg Burkhart, I'll also add my vote
for
> the venerable Aircoupe ( or Ercoupe depending upon the year). Here's
mine -
> http://www.hinessite.com/aircoupe.htm ,for more go to
> http://www.ercoupe.org, and http://www.ercoupers.com .
>
> It will outperform the 152, and is way cooler! The bubble canopy will
give
> you great view too. A 1965 or 66 Alon Aircoupe will cost you $20K - $25,
> leaving plenty out of that $35k budget for hanger space or tiedown, $100
> hamburgers, and cool aviator sunglasses ;-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Mitch
>
>
> --
> Mitch Hines
> Alon A-2 Aircoupe
> N6369V
>
>
> Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical
> and insignificant, if not utterly impossible.
>
> - Simon Newcomb, 1902
>
>
>


Actually I have another question: can you tell me what's the max G-load it
can withstand? Does the POH tell you?

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net

[David Megginson]

"Marco Rispoli" > writes:

> Is it all metal? On trade-a-plane that's what one of the sellers is
> claiming... Never seen one up close and in fact before you guys
> mentioned it to me I didn't even know it existed before today ...

You're about to spend a lot of money on an airplane. I know that many
owners are spending twice as much on their avionics upgrades as you
will be spending on your whole plane, but it's *still* a lot of money,
and the real cost is not the purchase but the yearly upkeep and
operating costs. I also know how excited and impatient (and nervous)
you must feel.

Still, I suggest that you slow down a bit. Spend some time walking
around airports (to the extent you're still allowed to do that down in
the U.S.), looking at planes and talking to pilots. Go on the
aircraft-type mailing lists and you'll probably find people willing to
take you up for rides in different aircraft types (you can offer to
pay for the gas, but they probably won't let you). Owners aren't
exactly modest or unenthusiastic when you start asking them questions
about their planes. Also, read the magazines, and go to Amazon and
order a few books, including aircraft reference books like Jane's.

Once you've narrowed it down, you might consider buying an owner's
manual or POH/PIM for the planes you're considering. You can often
find them on eBay for $10 or $15, or you can order many of them new or
in reprint from Essco:

http://www.esscoaircraft.com/


All the best,


David

[Mitch Hines]

Marco,

According to the POH

Positive 3.8 G Maneuver
3.6 G Gust
Negative -1.52 G Maneuver
- 1.605 G Guest

The 'Coupe are definitely not for aerobatics. These numbers may sound low,
but don't let that fool you about the ruggedness of this bird, it's built
like a little tank.

--Mitch


>
>
> Actually I have another question: can you tell me what's the max G-load it
> can withstand? Does the POH tell you?
>
> --
> Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
> You can read my flight training diary at
> http://www.tranceweb.net
>
>

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Marco Rispoli > wrote:
>In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2 seater
>could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.

I'll be flamed from all quarters here, but you might consider a "2 seater"
like the Mooney M20A. There's one on TAP right now for $30,500. If you
look for a bargain or stretch your budget you might be able to get into
a metal-wing M20. An M20 is going to be a lot easier to maintain than
an M10 since they all share many parts.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Matt Emerson]

(Ben Jackson) writes:
>
> I'll be flamed from all quarters here, but you might consider a "2 seater"
> like the Mooney M20A. There's one on TAP right now for $30,500. If you
> look for a bargain or stretch your budget you might be able to get into
> a metal-wing M20. An M20 is going to be a lot easier to maintain than
> an M10 since they all share many parts.

It cannot be easy to locate mechanics who are familiar with maintaining
and inspecting wood these days.

Read http://www.mooneypilots.com/woodwing.html, which is an interview
with Bill Wheat (a Mooney authority) about the wood-wing Mooney models
(the M20 and M20A).

I think you'd be looking at the low $40k range before you could get
into a decent 1962--1964 model year all-metal Mooney. That's quite a
bit out of the original poster's price range.

--
Matt Emerson
1963 M20D

[Marco Rispoli]

It's comparable to a 172.

That's fine I am not looking for an acro bird.

Just making sure that it can take a little bit of rough weather if needs be.

Thanks!
--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net
"Mitch Hines" > wrote in message
...
>
> Marco,
>
> According to the POH
>
> Positive 3.8 G Maneuver
> 3.6 G Gust
> Negative -1.52 G Maneuver
> - 1.605 G Guest
>
> The 'Coupe are definitely not for aerobatics. These numbers may sound
low,
> but don't let that fool you about the ruggedness of this bird, it's built
> like a little tank.
>
> --Mitch
>
>
> >
> >
> > Actually I have another question: can you tell me what's the max G-load
it
> > can withstand? Does the POH tell you?
> >
> > --
> > Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
> > You can read my flight training diary at
> > http://www.tranceweb.net
> >
> >
>
>

[Kevin]

(Ben Jackson) wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> Marco Rispoli > wrote:
> >In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2 seater
> >could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.
>
> I'll be flamed from all quarters here, but you might consider a "2 seater"
> like the Mooney M20A. There's one on TAP right now for $30,500. If you
> look for a bargain or stretch your budget you might be able to get into
> a metal-wing M20. An M20 is going to be a lot easier to maintain than
> an M10 since they all share many parts.

I also cast a vote for the Ercoupe. I will disagree with the above. An
M20 is a retractable, constant speed prop aircraft. It will cost much
more to maintain then an Ercoupe, Aircoupe or M10. Insurance will also
be much more. Been there.

Kevin

[[email protected]]

On 29-Aug-2003, Neal > wrote:

> Marco, the choice is obvious, You need a Cherokee 140.


I'm going to agree with Neal on this one. There is nothing wrong with two
seat training airplanes like the Ercoupe, Cadet, Skipper, et al, but they
really are limited for anything beyond local, low and slow flying. A 140 is
not the sexiest plane around, but it is economical to operate, very
reliable, and has excellent range, plenty of useful load, and adequate speed
for actually going places.

Once you discover how convenient (and fun!) a light airplane is for
traveling, you may very well want to expand your capabilities with an
instrument rating. A 140 is an excellent plane to use for instrument
training and, with its good range, IFR travel. I bought one about 28 years
ago and flew it for hundreds of hours, much of it IFR, from Seattle all over
the Western US and even once to the East Coast, landing at Washington
National.

The 140 can carry 2 full-sized adults, full fuel (5 hrs plus 1 hr reserve),
and plenty of baggage. For shorter local flights it will carry four adults
with reduced fuel. No room for baggage with four aboard, however.

One other factor: Insurance rates on the 140 are about as low as you will
find.

-Elliott Drucker

[Neal]

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 05:13:48 GMT, wrote:

>
>One other factor: Insurance rates on the 140 are about as low as you will
>find.

Yep, that too. I pay about $700/yr for mine.

[Kevin]

I got the impression he was looking for something interesting to fly.

Kevin


Neal > wrote in message >...
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 05:13:48 GMT, wrote:
>
> >
> >One other factor: Insurance rates on the 140 are about as low as you will
> >find.
>
> Yep, that too. I pay about $700/yr for mine.

[Neal]

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:55:50 GMT, David Megginson
> wrote:

>
>Mind you, nobody's going to say "hey, what kind of plane is that?" for
>a Cherokee, which was one of the original poster's requests.

Wanna bet?

You haven't seen mine then!!!!

It certainly has no shortage of attention-grabbing character, in fact
it is mentioned right now on at least three other websites than my own
website. Everywhere I go, it is an attention-magnet, and no, not
everyone is laughing at it either.

http://www.dylansmith.net/flying/trips/pville2k2/

http://www.swrfi.org/2003reviews.htm

http://www.eaa983.org/newsletters/EAAnewsletter0603.htm (text
reference under the Ranger Fly-In)

[Mark Astley]

Marco,

I've posted this before: if you're on a budget check out this article at
AvWeb:

http://www.avweb.com/news/usedacft/181782-1.html

Check out the section on "entry-level trainer", that's the category you're
buying into. They cover the skipper and the high-wings you don't like.
They also say "why buy a two-seater when you can get a four-seater for the
same price"? I took that advice when I picked up by PA28-140, which is also
in your price range. Anyway...

The skipper gets fair reviews and you can pick up decent ones that aren't
too old. The tomahawk, which is a near clone, is another story. It has a
few black eyes due to its stall/spin behavior (at least until several ADs
were applied). You'll want to be careful shopping for tomahawks and some
people simply don't trust them (Rich Stowell, famous for spin training, is
one such person, at least that's what he's said in the past). Don't know
anything about the M10, sorry. I DO know that the first M20s had wooden
wings, if that's true for the M10 then steer well clear.

good luck,
mark

"Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
t...
> In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2
seater
> could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.
>
> I can afford:
>
> Beech Skipper (goes between 25-35 grands age around 20+)
> Mooney M10 (same as the skipper ... but it's older age around 30+)
> Piper Tomahawk (same as the skipper).
>
> Are there any other low wing 2 seaters out there that I am missing?
> (probably, yes ...)
>
> By the way it's not by chance that there's no high-wings in my list. I
know
> I can probably buy a cub for the same price ... I am just not too crazy
> about high wings ... I will look into those later, if I have no other
> choice.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
> You can read my flight training diary at
> http://www.tranceweb.net
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Marco Rispoli wrote:
>
> Steve was right, my price cap is actually 35k (even if I didn't say it ...
> and I am not sure how he figured it...

Probably because you said the Skipper goes for up to 35k and fits your budget.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

[Mitch Hines]

"Mark Astley" > wrote in message
...
> Marco,

<clip>
> Don't know anything about the M10, sorry. I DO know that the first M20s
had wooden
> wings, if that's true for the M10 then steer well clear.
>
> good luck,
> mark
>
</clip>


Just for the record, the Mooney M10 Cadet is all-metal. It is really just
an Aircoupe with its tail feathers clipped. Mooney bought the
Ercoupe/Aircoupe type certificate and started producing the plane after
Alon. But they clipped off the most distictive part of the 'Coupe, the twin
vertical fins and replace it with their well know Mooney tail. With the twin
Tails the plane was placarded as incapable of spinning, under normal CG
limits it just could not be made to spin. For better or worse, this was
not true once Mooney put their tail on it. In my opinion, Mooney did Fred
Weick's design a great disservice. The M10 may be a great little plane, but
it just ain't the same bird.


Mitch Hines
Alon A-2 Aircoupe
N6369V


Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical
and insignificant, if not utterly impossible.

- Simon Newcomb, 1902

[Marco Rispoli]

Very good reading!

thank you!

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
You can read my flight training diary at
http://www.tranceweb.net
"Mark Astley" > wrote in message
...
> Marco,
>
> I've posted this before: if you're on a budget check out this article at
> AvWeb:
>
> http://www.avweb.com/news/usedacft/181782-1.html
>
> Check out the section on "entry-level trainer", that's the category you're
> buying into. They cover the skipper and the high-wings you don't like.
> They also say "why buy a two-seater when you can get a four-seater for the
> same price"? I took that advice when I picked up by PA28-140, which is
also
> in your price range. Anyway...
>
> The skipper gets fair reviews and you can pick up decent ones that aren't
> too old. The tomahawk, which is a near clone, is another story. It has a
> few black eyes due to its stall/spin behavior (at least until several ADs
> were applied). You'll want to be careful shopping for tomahawks and some
> people simply don't trust them (Rich Stowell, famous for spin training, is
> one such person, at least that's what he's said in the past). Don't know
> anything about the M10, sorry. I DO know that the first M20s had wooden
> wings, if that's true for the M10 then steer well clear.
>
> good luck,
> mark
>
> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
> t...
> > In my quest to purchase an aircraft I came to the conclusion that a 2
> seater
> > could fit my mission parameters AND my budget.
> >
> > I can afford:
> >
> > Beech Skipper (goes between 25-35 grands age around 20+)
> > Mooney M10 (same as the skipper ... but it's older age around 30+)
> > Piper Tomahawk (same as the skipper).
> >
> > Are there any other low wing 2 seaters out there that I am missing?
> > (probably, yes ...)
> >
> > By the way it's not by chance that there's no high-wings in my list. I
> know
> > I can probably buy a cub for the same price ... I am just not too crazy
> > about high wings ... I will look into those later, if I have no other
> > choice.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
> > You can read my flight training diary at
> > http://www.tranceweb.net
> >
> >
>
>

[Montblack]

Do you know the link for that person with the wooden Piper? Ok, it's only
paint, but it sure looks like wood.

--
Montblack

"Neal"
> http://www.dylansmith.net/flying/trips/pville2k2/
>
> http://www.swrfi.org/2003reviews.htm
>
> http://www.eaa983.org/newsletters/EAAnewsletter0603.htm (text
> reference under the Ranger Fly-In)
>

[Justin Case]

I don't subscribe, and there's no way I'd pay 12 bucks for a download.
Too bad, I'd like to see if they attempted to rip apart a great little
plane.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:11:50 -0400, " news.comcast.giganews.com"
> wrote:

>The January issue of Aviation Consumer features the various Air/Ercoupe in
>their "Used Aircraft" article, it might be wort a read.
>
>"Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
t...
>> "Mitch Hines" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Marco,
>> >
>> > I had(have) some of the same feelings, while a 152 will get you in the
>> air,
>> > it will not get a 2nd glance. Like Greg Burkhart, I'll also add my vote
>> for
>> > the venerable Aircoupe ( or Ercoupe depending upon the year). Here's
>> mine -
>> > http://www.hinessite.com/aircoupe.htm ,for more go to
>> > http://www.ercoupe.org, and http://www.ercoupers.com .
>> >
>> > It will outperform the 152, and is way cooler! The bubble canopy will
>> give
>> > you great view too. A 1965 or 66 Alon Aircoupe will cost you $20K -
>$25,
>> > leaving plenty out of that $35k budget for hanger space or tiedown, $100
>> > hamburgers, and cool aviator sunglasses ;-)
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Mitch
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mitch Hines
>> > Alon A-2 Aircoupe
>> > N6369V
>> >
>> >
>> > Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical
>> > and insignificant, if not utterly impossible.
>> >
>> > - Simon Newcomb, 1902
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Actually I have another question: can you tell me what's the max G-load it
>> can withstand? Does the POH tell you?
>>
>> --
>> Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA
>> You can read my flight training diary at
>> http://www.tranceweb.net
>>
>>
>

[[email protected]]

David Megginson > wrote:
: engines, two fuel tanks, etc. etc. Maintenance should be about the
: same, and while fuel will be a little more if you fly the four-seater
: at its best speed, you can always fly a 172 or Cherokee at 150 speeds
: and save gas -- my Warrior II burns only 6.6 gph at 55% power (90
: kias).

Absolutely. I get a kick out of people convincing themselves that
they don't want to get a higher HP version of a plane because they don't
like the extra fuel burn. I used to be one, when I was looking for a
Cherokee 140. After finding/buying/flying my Cherokee 180, however, I'm a
big believer that you can't have too much power in a plane. Since I'm
frugal by nature, I cruise the Cherokee 180 at 65%, 8.5 gal/hour... just
like a 150hp 140 at 75%. Kinder to the engine, can lean a bit more, but
you can get to altitude more comfortably and you got more when you need
it. Remember, airframe gets you speed, power gets you load/climb.

Best example is a guy I know who doesn't want a 150 hp version of
a Cessna 150 aerobat because of the fuel burn. Silly... plane silly... :)

-Cory


--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

[Neal]

On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:48:58 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

>
> Best example is a guy I know who doesn't want a 150 hp version of
>a Cessna 150 aerobat because of the fuel burn. Silly... plane silly... :)

heh! A 150hp Aerobat is the *only* Cessna 150 I'd consider buying :-)

[Steve Dold]

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003, Mitch Hines wrote:

> not true once Mooney put their tail on it. In my opinion, Mooney did Fred
> Weick's design a great disservice. The M10 may be a great little plane, but
> it just ain't the same bird.

I think they probably did it because they wanted a conventional trainer.
Although I hated the M10, I have to admit it generated a LOT of attention
when I would taxi into an airport. Not to many people have seen one.

--
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