Any retired Apollo 800 Flybuddy Lorans?

[Roger Long]

We still have one of these and it works great in the simple airspace we fly
in. Also good backup for the handheld GPS. The database is very old
however. Does anyone out there have one of these that they have retired?
I'd like to get a more recent database card?
--
Roger Long

[paul k. sanchez]

>We still have one of these and it works great in the simple airspace we fly
in. Also good backup for the handheld GPS. The database is very old however.
Does anyone out there have one of these that they have retired? I'd like to get
a more recent database card?
>--
>Roger Long
>

Roger:
I get my data card on the UPSAT Apollo Flybuddy Plus updated once per year.
www.upsat.com for subscription information. The last time I did the update I
found a new category of waypoints, LOC/DME locations to complement the ILS/LOC
approaches I was doing on the SL30 digital nav/com and the GX60 moving map.

Go to the source and get it done.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-965-8329 home/fax

[Neal]

www.upsat.com is now gone and is replaced by a Garmin website. There
is no longer any mention of database updates for the old Apollo Loran
products ("Flybrary" cards). I bought a one-time update for my 800+
loran a little over a year and a half ago and it was only about $80
including shipping plus a brand new memory flash card becuase the old
ones I had were too small capacity and won't hold the newer databases.
I wish I'd bought one more of these one-time update for it now since I
fear Garmin will shut off updates for these very abruptly if they
haven't already done so.

On 30 Aug 2003 13:02:24 GMT, (paul k. sanchez)
wrote:
>Roger:
>I get my data card on the UPSAT Apollo Flybuddy Plus updated once per year.
>www.upsat.com for subscription information. The last time I did the update I
>found a new category of waypoints, LOC/DME locations to complement the ILS/LOC
>approaches I was doing on the SL30 digital nav/com and the GX60 moving map.

[paul k. sanchez]

>www.upsat.com is now gone and is replaced by a Garmin website. There is no
longer any mention of database updates for the old Apollo Loran products
("Flybrary" cards). I bought a one-time update for my 800+ loran a little over
a year and a half ago and it was only about $80 including shipping plus a brand
new memory flash card becuase the old ones I had were too small capacity and
won't hold the newer databases. I wish I'd bought one more of these one-time
update for it now since I fear Garmin will shut off updates for these very
abruptly if they haven't already done so.
>

Au contraire Pierre.

http://www.garminat.com/138-0427.shtml

Data Card Identification
P/N: 138-0427 Name: North America
Class: D Version: 1.11

Coverage
North and Latin America (Hawaii not included)


Data Card Contents

Airport data: Airport, Ident, Lat/Lon, facility name, city name, state,
country, field elevation, facility type, runway direction, lengths, surface and
lighting, frequencies, fuel availability
VOR data: Ident, Lat/Lon, facility name, state, country, frequency
NDB data: Ident, Lat/Lon, facility name, state, country, frequency
LOC-DME: Ident, Lat/Lon, country (CONUS only)
Intersections: INTus[E] //is that area between the Longitudes W050 and W095
degrees inside the USA and an area east of Detroit in Canada INTus(W) // is
that area between the Longitudes W085 and W130 degrees inside the USA INT(O)am
// is that area in Canada, Latin America, Alaska and an area around Detroit in
USA. LOC-DME // are on the cards after intersections (They were before the
Intersections)
SUA data: Name, type, altitude boundaries, segmented TCA/ARSA. TRSA data not
provided.
MORA data: Minimum Off-Route Altitude data is provided.
Approaches: Approach data not provided.
Other Contents: NOTICE: The information on intersections is now found in two
lists: INT (K) for those in the Continental US and INT (O) for all other
intersections in the Americas.

Version Compatibility

Apollo NMC 2001 C115 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 5.0
Flybuddy Loran 800 1.0, 1.10, 1.11, 1.12, 1.13, 1.20
Flybuddy GPS 820 1.00, 1.01, 1.20
Apollo NMC 2001 C129 4.10, 5.00, 5.1

Maybe there is a reason clients pay my daily fee for what I know.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-965-8329 home/fax

[Neal]

Cool! Thanks Paul!!!!
I must be blind today... I looked all over the website and totally
missed it. I only saw the GPS unit info.

On 30 Aug 2003 22:31:31 GMT, (paul k. sanchez)
wrote:

>>www.upsat.com is now gone and is replaced by a Garmin website. There is no
>longer any mention of database updates for the old Apollo Loran products
>("Flybrary" cards). I bought a one-time update for my 800+ loran a little over
>a year and a half ago and it was only about $80 including shipping plus a brand
>new memory flash card becuase the old ones I had were too small capacity and
>won't hold the newer databases. I wish I'd bought one more of these one-time
>update for it now since I fear Garmin will shut off updates for these very
>abruptly if they haven't already done so.
>>
>
>Au contraire Pierre.
>
>http://www.garminat.com/138-0427.shtml
>
>Data Card Identification
>P/N: 138-0427 Name: North America
>Class: D Version: 1.11
>
>Coverage
>North and Latin America (Hawaii not included)
>
>
>Data Card Contents
>
>Airport data: Airport, Ident, Lat/Lon, facility name, city name, state,
>country, field elevation, facility type, runway direction, lengths, surface and
>lighting, frequencies, fuel availability
>VOR data: Ident, Lat/Lon, facility name, state, country, frequency
>NDB data: Ident, Lat/Lon, facility name, state, country, frequency
>LOC-DME: Ident, Lat/Lon, country (CONUS only)
>Intersections: INTus[E] //is that area between the Longitudes W050 and W095
>degrees inside the USA and an area east of Detroit in Canada INTus(W) // is
>that area between the Longitudes W085 and W130 degrees inside the USA INT(O)am
>// is that area in Canada, Latin America, Alaska and an area around Detroit in
>USA. LOC-DME // are on the cards after intersections (They were before the
>Intersections)
>SUA data: Name, type, altitude boundaries, segmented TCA/ARSA. TRSA data not
>provided.
>MORA data: Minimum Off-Route Altitude data is provided.
>Approaches: Approach data not provided.
>Other Contents: NOTICE: The information on intersections is now found in two
>lists: INT (K) for those in the Continental US and INT (O) for all other
>intersections in the Americas.
>
>Version Compatibility
>
>Apollo NMC 2001 C115 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 5.0
>Flybuddy Loran 800 1.0, 1.10, 1.11, 1.12, 1.13, 1.20
>Flybuddy GPS 820 1.00, 1.01, 1.20
>Apollo NMC 2001 C129 4.10, 5.00, 5.1
>
>Maybe there is a reason clients pay my daily fee for what I know.
>
>
>paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
>on eagles’ wings
>2011 south perimeter road, suite g
>fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
>305-389-1742 wireless
>954-776-0527 fax
>954-965-8329 home/fax

[Roger Long]

Don't feel bad. I thought I'd been all over that site before my original
post and I didn't find that either.

Thanks also, Paul.
--
Roger Long

[Roger Long]

This just in from Garmin:

Unfortunately the database card will not work and we can not get the
internal memory for the database upgrades anymore, therefore the Flybuddy
can not be updated.

GARMIN AT, Inc.

Aviation Account Representative

Bill Lehmanowsky

[paul k. sanchez]

>This just in from Garmin:
>
>Unfortunately the database card will not work and we can not get the internal
memory for the database upgrades anymore, therefore the Flybuddy can not be
updated.
>
> GARMIN AT, Inc.
>
>Aviation Account Representative
>
>Bill Lehmanowsky
>
For the Flybuddy 800+ Loran or just the Flybuddy 800?

Flybuddy 800 never had a data card reader anyway. Its database was internal and
limited to airport/VOR ID, lat/long and that was it.

Flybuddy 800+ Loran uses the same card as the Flybuddy 820 GPS, as the NMC
2001, etc.

Me thinks you might want to verify which Flybuddy you have, the 800+ or just
the 800.

Also consider getting a GX55 moving map gps with a altitude serializer if
indeed you have a Flybuddy 800 only and can not use a data card.

I have seen Flybuddy 800+ on www.ebay.com for $150, but only see them about 1
per month.



paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-965-8329 home/fax

[Roger Long]

The manual just says 800 but there is a page on Optional Datacards.
"Flybuddy Plus is the datacard option and is available as an upgrade for
Flybuddy pilots."

Our unit has a datacard slot in the front and there is something in it but
it may just be a cover or blank plug. Nothing that it says would be on an
optional datacard is active.

Could the data card slot be there and internal components required to read
it missing i.e., part of the upgrade referred to in the manual?

This unit does a fine job for the simple airspace we mostly fly in. I'd
like to put off a GPS purchase for a couple years but it would be nice to
have a database that doesn't predate the change in identifiers of many
airports.

Purchasing a more recent plus version for $150 and swapping it in sounds
like a good option to me, thus my original post. I guess I'll look around
on Ebay.

[Ray Andraka]

I have a similar problem with the Foster 500 Loran in my plane. I'd like to
update the database, which was last done 4/96 so that the airport identifiers
are correct and to correct for a few VORs that have been physically moved.
Been watching ebay, but the databases on those are even older. Does anyone
know what the format is in the Foster500 cartridge and whether one could be
updated by massaging a GPS database update and burning it into the cartridge
using an EPROM programmer? I'm not in a hurry to put a panel mount GPS in as
the negligible increase in capability over the existing setup (I have a hand
held GPS) does not justify the steep cost. Since my autopilot can use the
LORAN for input, I'd like to have a reasonably up to date database.

Roger Long wrote:

> The manual just says 800 but there is a page on Optional Datacards.
> "Flybuddy Plus is the datacard option and is available as an upgrade for
> Flybuddy pilots."
>
> Our unit has a datacard slot in the front and there is something in it but
> it may just be a cover or blank plug. Nothing that it says would be on an
> optional datacard is active.
>
> Could the data card slot be there and internal components required to read
> it missing i.e., part of the upgrade referred to in the manual?
>
> This unit does a fine job for the simple airspace we mostly fly in. I'd
> like to put off a GPS purchase for a couple years but it would be nice to
> have a database that doesn't predate the change in identifiers of many
> airports.
>
> Purchasing a more recent plus version for $150 and swapping it in sounds
> like a good option to me, thus my original post. I guess I'll look around
> on Ebay.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Neal]

>
>Also consider getting a GX55 moving map gps with a altitude serializer if
>indeed you have a Flybuddy 800 only and can not use a data card.
>

I have the 800 Plus with the card, and last year wanted to get a GX55
when they were so cheap, but the FSDO down here would not approve
installation by any A&P/IA on a 337 follow-on appoval, not even this
dirt-simple slide-in box swap / antenna swap for VFR-only operation
unless it was done by one of the certificated repair stations in the
area, all of whom refused to install any unit not sold by them. Of
course they all wanted about a thousand dollars mark-up over what you
could buy one for online. Now the purchase price is back up to around
$2700, and this unit is simply not worth that much. It's only
certifiable for IFR enroute ops, no approach and for that price range
you can get a rebuilt Garmin or King unit that is approach
certifiable. Probably the thing to do these days if you have a small,
simple plane is just to rip out the old Loran once it truly becomes
dead weight, and subtract it from your W&B and spend a grand on a
brand new GPS-196 instead. With the takeover of UPSAT by Garmin, I
would still be leary of buying any of the Apollo products anymore
(except the new CNX80), since the possibility that they will be
prematurely forced end-of-life still exists.

[paul k. sanchez]

>The manual just says 800 but there is a page on Optional Datacards. "Flybuddy
Plus is the datacard option and is available as an upgrade for Flybuddy
pilots."
>
>Our unit has a datacard slot in the front and there is something in it but it
may just be a cover or blank plug. Nothing that it says would be on an
optional datacard is active.
>
>Could the data card slot be there and internal components required to read it
missing i.e., part of the upgrade referred to in the manual?
>
>This unit does a fine job for the simple airspace we mostly fly in. I'd like
to put off a GPS purchase for a couple years but it would be nice to have a
database that doesn't predate the change in identifiers of many airports.
>
>Purchasing a more recent plus version for $150 and swapping it in sounds like
a good option to me, thus my original post. I guess I'll look around on Ebay.
>

Roger:
It sounds like you are describing a Flybuddy 800 only, no data card and data
card reader, and a plug to cover the data card slot.

Look at the back of the unit, does it say "Flybuddy 800+" or not?

I really can't see any incentive for Garmin AT to offer an upgrade from the
Flybuddy 800 to the 800+, especially since the manufacturing costs exceeds 2/3
of what the Apollo GX55 sells for.

If you can find a Flybuddy 800+ on www.ebay.com for $150 or whatever that is
great. You could also try the www.bennettavionics, wentworth salvage, and
others to see if they have a unit on inventory.

The Northstar M1A or M2 would also do quite well but that would involve
installation dollars. I gather that you are in no position of doing anything
for more than $200, which would certainly rule out my daily fee.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-965-8329 home/fax

[paul k. sanchez]

>We still have one of these and it works great in the simple airspace we fly
in. Also good backup for the handheld GPS. The database is very old however.
Does anyone out there have one of these that they have retired? I'd like to get
a more recent database card?
>--
>Roger Long

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26436&it
em=2430886485


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-965-8329 home/fax