oil leak fixed - breaking in new cylinders

[Michael 182]

A while ago I posted about an incurable oil leak in my '79 TR-182. Turned
out to be rings. Decided to get a top overhaul. Now I am breaking in the new
cylinders.

On one hand I've been told, in capital letters, "DO NOT BABY THE ENGINE"

On the other jand I've been told to maintain CHT of 325-350, which is quite
a trick given no cylinder thermometer. One mechanic said to just keep it in
the green for the first 20 hours to keep the turbo from generating too much
heat.

Any comments?

Thanks,

Michael

[Scott Skylane]

Michael 182 wrote:
> A while ago I posted about an incurable oil leak in my '79 TR-182. Turned
> out to be rings. Decided to get a top overhaul. Now I am breaking in the new
> cylinders.
/snip/
Michael,

Glad I could help! As far as break-in, just fly at least as hard as you
normally would, and she'll be fine.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

[Ron Natalie]

"Michael 182" > wrote in message news:uR2ab.374025$cF.110854@rwcrnsc53...

> On the other jand I've been told to maintain CHT of 325-350, which is quite
> a trick given no cylinder thermometer. One mechanic said to just keep it in
> the green for the first 20 hours to keep the turbo from generating too much
> heat.

You don't have a CHT or you don't have one on that cylinder? I thought 182's
had at least a single point CHT.

[Michael 182]

I don't think I have one - have an egt and a carb temp. I'll look again when
I get in the plane, but I can't picture it.


"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Michael 182" > wrote in message
news:uR2ab.374025$cF.110854@rwcrnsc53...
>
> > On the other jand I've been told to maintain CHT of 325-350, which is
quite
> > a trick given no cylinder thermometer. One mechanic said to just keep it
in
> > the green for the first 20 hours to keep the turbo from generating too
much
> > heat.
>
> You don't have a CHT or you don't have one on that cylinder? I thought
182's
> had at least a single point CHT.
>
>

[Michael 182]

Including using the turbo for climb (which puts out a ton of heat)?

"Scott Skylane" > wrote in message
...
> Michael 182 wrote:
> > A while ago I posted about an incurable oil leak in my '79 TR-182.
Turned
> > out to be rings. Decided to get a top overhaul. Now I am breaking in the
new
> > cylinders.
> /snip/
> Michael,
>
> Glad I could help! As far as break-in, just fly at least as hard as you
> normally would, and she'll be fine.
>
> Happy Flying!
> Scott Skylane
> N92054
>

[Dan Luke]

"Michael 182" wrote:
> On one hand I've been told, in capital letters,
> "DO NOT BABY THE ENGINE"
>
> On the other jand I've been told to maintain
> CHT of 325-350

Both correct. Running at high power is necessary to seat the rings. Low
temperature is necessary to prevent glazing the cylinders.

Keep the cowl flaps open and the mixture rich. Keep the power high - don't
fly so high that power is reduced below 75% until the cylinders are broken
in.

How come you don't have a CHT gauge?
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Albert]

FAR 23.1305(b)(3) says you need a CHT indicator for each air cooled engine
with cowl flaps. There ought to be one there somewhere.

"Michael 182" > wrote in message
et...
> I don't think I have one - have an egt and a carb temp. I'll look again
when
> I get in the plane, but I can't picture it.
>
>
> "Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Michael 182" > wrote in message
> news:uR2ab.374025$cF.110854@rwcrnsc53...
> >
> > > On the other jand I've been told to maintain CHT of 325-350, which is
> quite
> > > a trick given no cylinder thermometer. One mechanic said to just keep
it
> in
> > > the green for the first 20 hours to keep the turbo from generating too
> much
> > > heat.
> >
> > You don't have a CHT or you don't have one on that cylinder? I thought
> 182's
> > had at least a single point CHT.
> >
> >
>
>

[Ron Natalie]

"Michael 182" > wrote in message et...
> I don't think I have one - have an egt and a carb temp. I'll look again when
> I get in the plane, but I can't picture it.

Do you have cowl flaps?

[Ron Natalie]

"Dan Luke" <c172rgATbellsouthDOTnet> wrote in message ...
> "Michael 182" wrote:

> Keep the cowl flaps open and the mixture rich. Keep the power high - don't
> fly so high that power is reduced below 75% until the cylinders are broken
> in.

Here's Mattituck's take on it.

http://www.mattituck.com/new/articles/engbrkin.htm

[Newps]

Ron Natalie wrote:

> "Michael 182" > wrote in message news:uR2ab.374025$cF.110854@rwcrnsc53...
>
>
>>On the other jand I've been told to maintain CHT of 325-350, which is quite
>>a trick given no cylinder thermometer. One mechanic said to just keep it in
>>the green for the first 20 hours to keep the turbo from generating too much
>>heat.
>
>
> You don't have a CHT or you don't have one on that cylinder? I thought 182's
> had at least a single point CHT.

Bottom left gauge in the six pack. Although there is no temps shown
except a middle one and a red line.

[Michael 182]

All right, I'm sufficiently embarrassed.

Any clue where 325-350 would reside on the gauge?

Michael

"Newps" > wrote in message
news:w86ab.488884$Ho3.82663@sccrnsc03...
>
>
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>
> > "Michael 182" > wrote in message
news:uR2ab.374025$cF.110854@rwcrnsc53...
> >
> >
> >>On the other jand I've been told to maintain CHT of 325-350, which is
quite
> >>a trick given no cylinder thermometer. One mechanic said to just keep it
in
> >>the green for the first 20 hours to keep the turbo from generating too
much
> >>heat.
> >
> >
> > You don't have a CHT or you don't have one on that cylinder? I thought
182's
> > had at least a single point CHT.
>
> Bottom left gauge in the six pack. Although there is no temps shown
> except a middle one and a red line.
>

[Newps]

Michael 182 wrote:
> All right, I'm sufficiently embarrassed.
>
> Any clue where 325-350 would reside on the gauge?

Exactly? No, not without pulling it out and putting it in the oven.
About 2/3 to the red though.

[Montblack]

("Michael 182")
> I don't think I have one - have an egt and a carb temp. I'll look again
when
> I get in the plane, but I can't picture it.

I read my share of posts and this is the first time I've noticed someone
mentioning a carb temp gauge.

Is it a nice luxury, or not overly necessary?

Is it a standard piece of equipment on turbo's?

Are they ok in reliability (accuracy) and longevity?

Do people, without them, install them because carb temp gauges are on their
*someday* list?

--
Montblack

[Michael 182]

I had one in my old normally aspirated 182, and there is one in my turbo.
Don't know if either was standard given both planes were well used when I
bought them. In the non-turbo 182 the carb temp gauge was useful since the
plane had a tendency to get carb ice. I got it a few times. In the turbo it
is almost impossible to get the carb temperature low enough to allow carb
ice to form. I have never used the carb heat in the turbo except during
run-up.

Michael

> I read my share of posts and this is the first time I've noticed someone
> mentioning a carb temp gauge.
>
> Is it a nice luxury, or not overly necessary?
>
> Is it a standard piece of equipment on turbo's?
>
> Are they ok in reliability (accuracy) and longevity?
>
> Do people, without them, install them because carb temp gauges are on
their
> *someday* list?
>
> --
> Montblack
>
>

[Ron Natalie]

"Newps" > wrote in message news:w86ab.488884$Ho3.82663@sccrnsc03...
..
>
> Bottom left gauge in the six pack. Although there is no temps shown
> except a middle one and a red line.
>
The operating limitations book probably tells you what the red line
is. On my plane, the red line is just the top of the normal operating
range. keeping a needles width (knowning the stock cerssna guages)
below it is probably fine.

[Ron Natalie]

"Montblack" > wrote in message news:3f6936c8$0$42037
> I read my share of posts and this is the first time I've noticed someone
> mentioning a carb temp gauge.
>
> Is it a nice luxury, or not overly necessary?

Depends on what engine. Certain engines are much more succeptible
to carb ice. The O-300 is one. I used to fly a Cessna 170 that had one
and it would ice up in a heartbeat. Very happy it had a carb temp gauge.

> Is it a standard piece of equipment on turbo's?

Dunno, all the Turbo'd aircraft I've ever flown were injected.

[Michael 182]

Just an update - flew a 2.5 hour break in flight today (Longmont to the
South Dakota line and back). What a difference. 5-8 knots greater IAS,
better climb with lower MP settings, and just a better feel - kind of more
solid feeling in the vibration. Of course, all of this might be
rationalization for a 5-6K bill...

Michael


"Michael 182" > wrote in message
news:uR2ab.374025$cF.110854@rwcrnsc53...
> A while ago I posted about an incurable oil leak in my '79 TR-182. Turned
> out to be rings. Decided to get a top overhaul. Now I am breaking in the
new
> cylinders.
>
> On one hand I've been told, in capital letters, "DO NOT BABY THE ENGINE"
>
> On the other jand I've been told to maintain CHT of 325-350, which is
quite
> a trick given no cylinder thermometer. One mechanic said to just keep it
in
> the green for the first 20 hours to keep the turbo from generating too
much
> heat.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael
>
>

[Newps]

When I installed my EI 14 channel EGT/CHT I used the two free channels
for OAT and carb temp. I have had it for four years and it has worked
perfectly. Kind of a gee whiz thing though. Since I fly out here in
the west carb ice is not a factor.

Montblack wrote:
> ("Michael 182")
>
>>I don't think I have one - have an egt and a carb temp. I'll look again
>
> when
>
>>I get in the plane, but I can't picture it.
>
>
> I read my share of posts and this is the first time I've noticed someone
> mentioning a carb temp gauge.
>
> Is it a nice luxury, or not overly necessary?
>
> Is it a standard piece of equipment on turbo's?
>
> Are they ok in reliability (accuracy) and longevity?
>
> Do people, without them, install them because carb temp gauges are on their
> *someday* list?
>

[Newps]

Ron Natalie wrote:

> "Newps" > wrote in message news:w86ab.488884$Ho3.82663@sccrnsc03...
> .
>
>>Bottom left gauge in the six pack. Although there is no temps shown
>>except a middle one and a red line.
>>
>
> The operating limitations book probably tells you what the red line
> is.

The book and the gauge list it.

[Jay Honeck]

> Just an update - flew a 2.5 hour break in flight today (Longmont to the
> South Dakota line and back). What a difference. 5-8 knots greater IAS,
> better climb with lower MP settings, and just a better feel - kind of more
> solid feeling in the vibration. Of course, all of this might be
> rationalization for a 5-6K bill...

Michael, I highly recommend adding a little (in aviation terms!) to your
bill at this time, and add a multi-channel engine monitor to your panel.

When we put in our rebuilt O-540 last year, I considered it a "must have".
As opposed to the old single-channel EGT/CHT meter, our JPI EDM-700 enables
us to graphically monitor each cylinder's performance in real-time, and
allows us to adjust mixture and throttle settings in order to equalize
temperatures between cylinders. It also gives precise oil temperature and
fuel flow information.

Compared to the cost of an engine, the cost of installation is
insignificant.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com

[Michael 182]

I'll look into it. Thanks for the advice.

Michael

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:dIYab.525738$Ho3.88748@sccrnsc03...

> Michael, I highly recommend adding a little (in aviation terms!) to your
> bill at this time, and add a multi-channel engine monitor to your panel.
>
> When we put in our rebuilt O-540 last year, I considered it a "must have".
> As opposed to the old single-channel EGT/CHT meter, our JPI EDM-700
enables
> us to graphically monitor each cylinder's performance in real-time, and
> allows us to adjust mixture and throttle settings in order to equalize
> temperatures between cylinders. It also gives precise oil temperature
and
> fuel flow information.
>
> Compared to the cost of an engine, the cost of installation is
> insignificant.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
>
>

[Ray Andraka]

Jay,

I agree, and am glad I took your advice earlier this summer when I did mine. It
has already paid for itself in troubleshooting dollars saved, as I've been
having episodes of rough running on leveling out. With the monitor, I know it
is the #1 cylinder. Without it, we'd probably still be chasing things that were
easily ruled out with the monitor. Thanks for the advice. BTW, I did the
install myself including moving a few things around on the panel to make it
fit. Took me about 16 hours, about 6 of which was the actual install. A&P
supervised it, checked my work when I finished and signed it off in the logs and
337. The install is easy to do if you have a hole already available. The
longest part of the install is tie wrapping the wires. To help in making the
harness, I used some shrink tubing to reduce the number of ties as well as add a
protective layer over the actual wires.

Jay Honeck wrote:

> > Just an update - flew a 2.5 hour break in flight today (Longmont to the
> > South Dakota line and back). What a difference. 5-8 knots greater IAS,
> > better climb with lower MP settings, and just a better feel - kind of more
> > solid feeling in the vibration. Of course, all of this might be
> > rationalization for a 5-6K bill...
>
> Michael, I highly recommend adding a little (in aviation terms!) to your
> bill at this time, and add a multi-channel engine monitor to your panel.
>
> When we put in our rebuilt O-540 last year, I considered it a "must have".
> As opposed to the old single-channel EGT/CHT meter, our JPI EDM-700 enables
> us to graphically monitor each cylinder's performance in real-time, and
> allows us to adjust mixture and throttle settings in order to equalize
> temperatures between cylinders. It also gives precise oil temperature and
> fuel flow information.
>
> Compared to the cost of an engine, the cost of installation is
> insignificant.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Jay Honeck]

> I agree, and am glad I took your advice earlier this summer when I did
mine. It
> has already paid for itself in troubleshooting dollars saved, as I've been
> having episodes of rough running on leveling out. With the monitor, I
know it
> is the #1 cylinder. Without it, we'd probably still be chasing things
that were
> easily ruled out with the monitor. Thanks for the advice.

That's great, Ray -- glad to hear my advice helped.

We love our engine monitor, although (thankfully) it hasn't shown anything
alarming. But the knowledge that it is there, displaying the internal
workings of our engine in real time, is worth the price of installation.

> To help in making the
> harness, I used some shrink tubing to reduce the number of ties as well as
add a
> protective layer over the actual wires.

I really like that idea, although it must've made getting the whole mess
through the firewall a bitch. It was tough enough, pulling them through one
or two at a time!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ray Andraka]

I pulled them through the firewall first, then split the bundle according to
which side of the engine and put those bundles in separate shrink tubes, then
put both through a short (about 8") piece of tube, shrank it all then pulled it
back through the firewall and looped it in the top of the baggage compartment
(it is a CHerokee SIx), to leave about a foot of slack should I ever need it,
and tye wrapped that to secure it. For the branch that went to the right side
of the engine, I actually used two pieces of shrink tube so that the oil and
carb temp wires come out of the bundle at the center of the firewall, and the
rest are still in the shrink tube till it gets to the #5 cylinder. That shrink
tube is great stuff, and makes for a very neat looking install.

Jay Honeck wrote:

> > I agree, and am glad I took your advice earlier this summer when I did
> mine. It
> > has already paid for itself in troubleshooting dollars saved, as I've been
> > having episodes of rough running on leveling out. With the monitor, I
> know it
> > is the #1 cylinder. Without it, we'd probably still be chasing things
> that were
> > easily ruled out with the monitor. Thanks for the advice.
>
> That's great, Ray -- glad to hear my advice helped.
>
> We love our engine monitor, although (thankfully) it hasn't shown anything
> alarming. But the knowledge that it is there, displaying the internal
> workings of our engine in real time, is worth the price of installation.
>
> > To help in making the
> > harness, I used some shrink tubing to reduce the number of ties as well as
> add a
> > protective layer over the actual wires.
>
> I really like that idea, although it must've made getting the whole mess
> through the firewall a bitch. It was tough enough, pulling them through one
> or two at a time!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[[email protected]]

Ray Andraka > wrote:
: rest are still in the shrink tube till it gets to the #5 cylinder. That shrink
: tube is great stuff, and makes for a very neat looking install.

... and you can get stuff that has heat-activated glue inside for
a water-tight seal. It also provides better strain-relief for soldered
connections.

-Cory


--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************