dream upgrade

[Rosspilot]

Assuming it's time for overhaul . . .

With a 1967 H-model Skyhawk, does anyone on this NG know what the most powerful
replacement/upgrade can be added to this airframe?

I have the 145 HP Cont O-300 . . . would LOVE to get to 180 HP . . . can it be
done?


www.Rosspilot.com

[EDR]

In article >, Rosspilot
> wrote:
> I have the 145 HP Cont O-300 . . . would LOVE to get to 180 HP . . . can it be
> done?

Why would you want to go from a smooth running, fuel sipping six
cylinder to a vibrating, fuel gulping four cylinder?

[Rosspilot]

>> I have the 145 HP Cont O-300 . . . would LOVE to get to 180 HP . . . can it
>be
>> done?
>
>Why would you want to go from a smooth running, fuel sipping six
>cylinder to a vibrating, fuel gulping four cylinder?

I have a friend with a '74 and the 160 HP ram upgrade . . . his Hawk climbs
out so much faster than mine . . . I just thought logically that 25 more HP
(180) would really improve performance. Although I love the smoothness of my
own engine,
I do not notice any "vibration" in his Lycoming, and our fuel burns are
similar.


www.Rosspilot.com

[BTIZ]

look for an STC to upgrade to 180-200HP CSpeed.

There is an old ARMY T-41B (C-172XP) that has a 210HP, (no time limit), high
lift leading edge cuffs and stall fences (STOL performance), long range
tanks with a pony tank in the aft baggage area. It took a beefier nose strut
to support the engine, and larger main wheel tires to match the height of
the nose gear...

Looks and flies GREAT !!!

The civil C-172XPs that came out in the late 80s (??) were 195HP and limited
to max power for 5 minutes (initial climb out)

BT
"Rosspilot" > wrote in message
...
> Assuming it's time for overhaul . . .
>
> With a 1967 H-model Skyhawk, does anyone on this NG know what the most
powerful
> replacement/upgrade can be added to this airframe?
>
> I have the 145 HP Cont O-300 . . . would LOVE to get to 180 HP . . . can
it be
> done?
>
>
> www.Rosspilot.com
>
>

[Roger Halstead]

On 28 Sep 2003 15:19:38 GMT, (Rosspilot)
wrote:

>>> I have the 145 HP Cont O-300 . . . would LOVE to get to 180 HP . . . can it
>>be
>>> done?
>>
>>Why would you want to go from a smooth running, fuel sipping six
>>cylinder to a vibrating, fuel gulping four cylinder?
>
> I have a friend with a '74 and the 160 HP ram upgrade . . . his Hawk climbs
>out so much faster than mine . . . I just thought logically that 25 more HP
>(180) would really improve performance. Although I love the smoothness of my
>own engine,
>I do not notice any "vibration" in his Lycoming, and our fuel burns are
>similar.

A friend has a Hawk and were I ever going to get a 172 that would be
the version I'd want. Man, but that thing climbs. It's no slouch at
cruise either. He took off immediately prior to me for a 50 NM trip.
I was still rolling out when he was turning down wind.

One surprise was how much gas it took me to take a trip. I was
flying a 172 (with the smaller engine) a couple years ago and it took
more gas to go from point A to point B than did my 260 HP Debonair.
The Deb burns 13.5 to 14 gallons per hour (it doesn't know how to run
less than 75% unless I take it up high) yet it took less gas on a 350
mile trip than did the 172. Considerably less.

OTOH our old Cherokee 180 made the same trip and used within 1/2
gallon of what the Deb did. That little difference could easily be
attributed to fueling techniques. I will admit the Cherokee left
about 10 minutes ahead of me (MIE) and I passed them before reaching
Fort Wayne. I was back at 3BS, had the Deb hangered, and was having a
cup of coffee in the terminal before I heard them call in.

But...I did like flying that Hawk. He purchased it new, has had the
engine majored and that is now run out. Last I knew he was trying to
decide whether to get a new one, or just put a new engine in the old
plane. It has close to 5000 hours and he put on nearly every one.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>
>
>www.Rosspilot.com
>

[Bill Higdon]

The air Force had a Bunch of them, Some made it to the CAP AFIK.
Bill Higdon
BTIZ wrote:
> look for an STC to upgrade to 180-200HP CSpeed.
>
> There is an old ARMY T-41B (C-172XP) that has a 210HP, (no time limit), high
> lift leading edge cuffs and stall fences (STOL performance), long range
> tanks with a pony tank in the aft baggage area. It took a beefier nose strut
> to support the engine, and larger main wheel tires to match the height of
> the nose gear...
>
> Looks and flies GREAT !!!
>
> The civil C-172XPs that came out in the late 80s (??) were 195HP and limited
> to max power for 5 minutes (initial climb out)
>
> BT
> "Rosspilot" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Assuming it's time for overhaul . . .
>>
>>With a 1967 H-model Skyhawk, does anyone on this NG know what the most
>
> powerful
>
>>replacement/upgrade can be added to this airframe?
>>
>>I have the 145 HP Cont O-300 . . . would LOVE to get to 180 HP . . . can
>
> it be
>
>>done?
>>
>>
>>www.Rosspilot.com
>>
>>
>
>
>

[BTIZ]

"Bill Higdon" > wrote in message
...
> The air Force had a Bunch of them, Some made it to the CAP AFIK.
> Bill Higdon

they might have... but most have been replaced with C-182s, fixed gear

BT

[Montblack]

Thielert Engine 135HP (diesel)
http://www.dieselair.com/

One option.

--
Montblack


("Rosspilot" wrote)
> Assuming it's time for overhaul . . .
>
> With a 1967 H-model Skyhawk, does anyone on this NG know what the most
powerful
> replacement/upgrade can be added to this airframe?
>
> I have the 145 HP Cont O-300 . . . would LOVE to get to 180 HP . . . can
it be
> done?

[Ross Richardson]

Yes you can put in a 180 ph engine. I have one in my '65 model and
turning a C/S prop. Check http://www.airplains.com/. The downside with
our models is that you cannot get a GW weight increase and we are still
limited to 36 gallons of LL. I love my configuration. But, my conversion
is a Bush/Doyn and I would not recommend that only because of the
owners. I am not sure it is even still available.

Contact me if you would like more information.

Rosspilot wrote:
>
> Assuming it's time for overhaul . . .
>
> With a 1967 H-model Skyhawk, does anyone on this NG know what the most powerful
> replacement/upgrade can be added to this airframe?
>
> I have the 145 HP Cont O-300 . . . would LOVE to get to 180 HP . . . can it be
> done?
>
> www.Rosspilot.com

[John Galban]

Ross Richardson > wrote in message >...
> Yes you can put in a 180 ph engine. I have one in my '65 model and
> turning a C/S prop. Check http://www.airplains.com/. The downside with
> our models is that you cannot get a GW weight increase and we are still
> limited to 36 gallons of LL. I love my configuration. But, my conversion
> is a Bush/Doyn and I would not recommend that only because of the
> owners. I am not sure it is even still available.

The other downside is the conversion cost. Going from the
Continental to the Lycoming requires the replacement of just about
everything forward of the firewall, including the nose gear.
Converting Lyc. 150/160 hp 172 to 180 hp is a lot easier and less
expensive.

I had a 145 hp 172 and this was my dream conversion. I needed the
extra climb performance in the backcountry. Unfortunately, the price
was way out of my ballpark. For the Continental conversions, I've
found that it's usually cheaper to buy one that's already been
converted.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[David Hill]

Rosspilot wrote:
> Assuming it's time for overhaul . . .
>
> With a 1967 H-model Skyhawk, does anyone on this NG know what the most powerful
> replacement/upgrade can be added to this airframe?
>
> I have the 145 HP Cont O-300 . . . would LOVE to get to 180 HP . . . can it be
> done?

Someone else said, "Why would you want to go from a smooth running, fuel
sipping six cylinder to a vibrating, fuel gulping four cylinder?"

I agree, especially when you can go to a smooth running, fuel sipping
six cylinder that has 220 hp. The Franklin 220 is STCed for your 172, I
believe. Check out <http://franklinengines.com/cessna.cfm>

Don't know the cost. I have one friend who installed a Franklin 220 in
his 170A. I think it set him back about $25,000 total.

--
David Hill
david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA

[Rosspilot]

> The Franklin 220 is STCed for your 172, I
>believe. Check out <http://franklinengines.com/cessna.cfm>
>
>Don't know the cost. I have one friend who installed a Franklin 220 in
>his 170A. I think it set him back about $25,000 total.
>

Wow! This one looks great.
www.Rosspilot.com

[Wayne]

I have the 180 CS conversion in a 175B. It's short filed performance is
great compared to the 172. Cruise speed is not that great. A friend of mine
has a 69 172 with the O-320. We run even in cruise with him at 65% power and
me at 55%. Fuel at 75% cruise is about 9.5GPH. When time for overhaul, 4
cyclinders are cheaper than 6. Still, I don't think I would do the
conversion, I'd sell the plane and buy one equiped the way I want it unless
I had someone wanting to buy the old engine for a good enough price to make
it worth while, not likely.

Wayne

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Rosspilot
> > wrote:
> > I have the 145 HP Cont O-300 . . . would LOVE to get to 180 HP . . . can
it be
> > done?
>
> Why would you want to go from a smooth running, fuel sipping six
> cylinder to a vibrating, fuel gulping four cylinder?

[G.R. Patterson III]

Wayne wrote:
>
> Still, I don't think I would do the
> conversion, I'd sell the plane and buy one equiped the way I want it unless
> I had someone wanting to buy the old engine for a good enough price to make
> it worth while, not likely.

I wouldn't. You take a bath on the sale in this market and then turn around
and wind up paying a few thousand dollars to your mechanic for the infamous
first annual inspection on the new plane. Ross has a nice aircraft set up
pretty much the way he wants it. If he changes the engine out, he gets what
he wants and knows what he has. There's no guarantee that he'll get what he
wants, and he certainly won't know what he has if he buys another aircraft.

George Patterson
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the
good fortune to run into the ones I like, and the eyesight to tell the
difference.

[Ross Richardson]

Mine was also done when I bought it. I'm not sure the nose gear was
replaced, though. New engine mount, yes.

Ross

John Galban wrote:
>
> Ross Richardson > wrote in message >...
> > Yes you can put in a 180 ph engine. I have one in my '65 model and
> > turning a C/S prop. Check http://www.airplains.com/. The downside with
> > our models is that you cannot get a GW weight increase and we are still
> > limited to 36 gallons of LL. I love my configuration. But, my conversion
> > is a Bush/Doyn and I would not recommend that only because of the
> > owners. I am not sure it is even still available.
>
> The other downside is the conversion cost. Going from the
> Continental to the Lycoming requires the replacement of just about
> everything forward of the firewall, including the nose gear.
> Converting Lyc. 150/160 hp 172 to 180 hp is a lot easier and less
> expensive.
>
> I had a 145 hp 172 and this was my dream conversion. I needed the
> extra climb performance in the backcountry. Unfortunately, the price
> was way out of my ballpark. For the Continental conversions, I've
> found that it's usually cheaper to buy one that's already been
> converted.
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[John Galban]

David Hill > wrote in message >...
>
> Someone else said, "Why would you want to go from a smooth running, fuel
> sipping six cylinder to a vibrating, fuel gulping four cylinder?"
>
> I agree, especially when you can go to a smooth running, fuel sipping
> six cylinder that has 220 hp. The Franklin 220 is STCed for your 172, I
> believe. Check out <http://franklinengines.com/cessna.cfm>
>
> Don't know the cost. I have one friend who installed a Franklin 220 in
> his 170A. I think it set him back about $25,000 total.

Good one! I'd forgotten about the Franklin option. I flew one of
these several years ago. Taking off from 7,000 MSL it was climbing
like a 182 at sea level. 10 less horsepower than a 182 with the
airframe weight of a 172. I liked it.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Rosspilot]

I checked in with Air Plains today . . . they are offering to install a 180 HP
Lycoming O-360 A4 for $35K and I have to give them my Cont O-300. It's a
complete firewall forward change . . . takes a week in their shop. They will
also ship everything needed to do the upgrade to my mechanic for $30,000 (and I
have to send them the old engine and prop, etc).

Cost/benefit seems way out of line at first look . . . still exploring the
Franklin 220 . . . no response from them yet.


www.Rosspilot.com

[Ross Richardson]

Penn Yan used to do these conversions also. Might do a search.

Ross


Rosspilot wrote:
>
> I checked in with Air Plains today . . . they are offering to install a 180 HP
> Lycoming O-360 A4 for $35K and I have to give them my Cont O-300. It's a
> complete firewall forward change . . . takes a week in their shop. They will
> also ship everything needed to do the upgrade to my mechanic for $30,000 (and I
> have to send them the old engine and prop, etc).
>
> Cost/benefit seems way out of line at first look . . . still exploring the
> Franklin 220 . . . no response from them yet.
>
> www.Rosspilot.com

[John Godwin]

(Rosspilot) wrote in
:

> Cost/benefit seems way out of line at first look . . . still exploring
> the Franklin 220 . . . no response from them yet.

http://franklinengines.com/220HP.cfm

--
John Godwin
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT from email address)

[Newps]

If Franklin is the one that is being manufactured in Europe somewhere,
Poland I think I heard, they are belly up.

John Godwin wrote:

> (Rosspilot) wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Cost/benefit seems way out of line at first look . . . still exploring
>>the Franklin 220 . . . no response from them yet.
>
>
> http://franklinengines.com/220HP.cfm
>

[Rosspilot]

>If Franklin is the one that is being manufactured in Europe somewhere,
>Poland I think I heard, they are belly up.

Tango Uniform, huh?

That would explain their lack of response so far . . . :(




www.Rosspilot.com

[John Clonts]

"Rosspilot" > wrote in message
...
> >If Franklin is the one that is being manufactured in Europe somewhere,
> >Poland I think I heard, they are belly up.
>
> Tango Uniform, huh?
>

No, Bravo Uniform-- where'd you get your pilot's certificate, Sears? :)

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

[David Hill]

John Godwin wrote:
<snip>
>>Cost/benefit seems way out of line at first look . . . still exploring
>>the Franklin 220 . . . no response from them yet.
<snip>

Did you email them, or call them? My past experience with them is they
are slow to respond to email, if at all, but they do answer the phone.

--
David Hill
david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA

[Donald Royer]

PZL the polish company that had been building the Franklin engines has been
bought out by Pratt and Whitney. PZL's main business is making turbines and
superchargers and apparently that is what Pratt and Whitney was interested
in. They have shut down the production of the Franklin engines and that part
of the business is up for sale. There is a rumor that an outfit in Texas
will probably buy it and start production again, but right now there are no
new engines being built.

Franklin Engines in Fort Collins CO. is probably in no hurry to respond to
your email because Pratt and Whitney has canceled all of the Franklin
dealerships. However, if the engines do become available again they will be
involved because they hold the STC's for the installation of the engines in
a number of planes.

"Newps" > wrote in message
news:cI0fb.481603$Oz4.320169@rwcrnsc54...
> If Franklin is the one that is being manufactured in Europe somewhere,
> Poland I think I heard, they are belly up.
>
> John Godwin wrote:
>
> > (Rosspilot) wrote in
> > :
> >
> >
> >>Cost/benefit seems way out of line at first look . . . still exploring
> >>the Franklin 220 . . . no response from them yet.
> >
> >
> > http://franklinengines.com/220HP.cfm
> >
>

[Montblack]

(copied from the website)

http://www.dieselair.com/

News of 07/30/2003

When will you be able to own and fly in an STC'd diesel 172, 182 or
Cherokee?

As of August 1st, it seems that by end of year at latest, the following
STC's will be OK'd by FAA and available as standard conversions at fixed
price for an initially airworthy aircraft:

Cessna 172 (wait for exact models, years) with Thielert Engine 135HP,
possibly with a constant speed propeller. Such a propeller would anyway be
recommended for best performance at take off and initial climb, in which
case the 172 demonstrator flying in Europe shows performance as good or
better than a 172 with O-320 160HP gasoline engine.

Piper Cherokee (wait for exact models, years) with Thielert Engine 135HP,
possibly with a constant speed propeller.

Cessna 182P and later models with SMA Engine and 3-blade constant speed
propeller.

(end of web info)

It's my understanding that Thielert is/will be approved for diesel fuel,
while SMA is/will only be approved for Jet-A....for now.

Wonder if FADEC will be standard equipment on a (new diesel) firewall
forward order?

--
Montblack

("Donald Royer" wrote)
> PZL the polish company that had been building the Franklin engines has
been
> bought out by Pratt and Whitney. PZL's main business is making turbines
and
> superchargers and apparently that is what Pratt and Whitney was interested
> in. They have shut down the production of the Franklin engines and that
part
> of the business is up for sale. There is a rumor that an outfit in Texas
> will probably buy it and start production again, but right now there are
no
> new engines being built. <snip>